Re: Open source WO - offer

> Open sourcing WebObjects and keeping the quality high, and
> maintaining the right direction, and contributing developers, and
> maintaining it as the Mac Web development platform (as others have
> indicated) would cost a lot more than what they are now doing (post
> WWDC06).

I contend it would cost so much more since they can do it with WebKit
and could do it with parts of WebObjects to "test the waters"
slowly....we don't have the figures, so no point arguing :)

> > Soon the tools are deprecated, so a (new) WO developer will most
> > likely use WOLips/Eclipse...he can do that on Windows if he wants to.
>
> Most likely?  I think they would be silly not too.

There was some talk to use WOLips with IDEA (instead of Eclipse), so a
few people might prefer that (?).

> > # 1: Better WO Marketability in the Enterprise, Investment Safety for
> > Customer (no Apple consumer brand image attached)
>
> How does that help Apple?   They can develop with an open source WO
> on another platform without paying Apple anything.

Sun, IBM and JBoss make money solely by selling services. So can Apple...
http://www.apple.com/services/technicalsupport


> > #5: Growing competition from opensource alternatives (app server from

Just to add to #5 I of course wanted to say: *Fend off* growing competition...

> > Sun, IBM, JBoss and languages such as Ruby on Rails etc.) narrowing
> > WOs lead
>
> How does that help Apple? I don't think Apple is in this competition
> (and hasn't been for a long time).  They were way out a head, made
> some bad decisions, and then gave up.

Consider how Ruby on Rails virtually came out of nowhere, so it's not
too late for WO to be in competition.

2-3 years ago, people posted on the mailing list WO asking for
comparison  with Zope / .Net / JSP ?

Today it's all WO vs Ruby on Rails, that's how fast an open source
solution can appear out of nowhere and be a competitor IMHO.

Andrus posted that an opensource WO version might again support
additional languages one day - just as one example:

http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug/msg00830.html

The bottom line: Open source can bring WO places beyond Apple's
imagination in the future  - which again serves Apple long term.

> Or they can continue doing the small improvements they have been
> doing (as needed by iTMS and the Apple Store) and save a lot of money
> not developing tools etc.

As I tried to argue above, it may serve  their interests short term,
but not *long-term*.

Apple will need  a thriving community outside of Apple since that
community is now supposed to provide the tools.

So in my view it needs to give something back in return, ie. an open
source WO - I hope they will realize that in 1-2 years from now once
they see the progress achieved with the tools :)

> The same is not true for the open source tool developers if
> WebObjects was deprecated.

Yes.

> If WebObjects is not going to be open sourced (which I believe it
> isn't) then I believe the most sensible approach is to develop an
> open source compatible product.

See Wojteks' post about that, I think he is serious about it :)

Marc