Re: WebObject Support on the development tools

I think one of the problems with IDEs like Eclipse is they have to =20
make up for language problems. The example that comes to mind is =20
packages and imports. This is project configuration information that =20
programmers must maintain in the source code =96 only environments like =20=

Eclipse tend to ease that burden =96 a burden that should not be there =20=

in the first place.

Actually, Java does a pretty good job of minimizing this stuff as =20
compared to C and C++, which suffer because very little of this =20
project configuration stuff is factored out of the language (that with =20=

very little abstraction away from low-level details and compiler =20
implementation details) make Java look good.

Ian

On 28/11/2007, at 5:32 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:

>
> On Nov 26, 2007, at 11:48 PM, Georg Tuparev wrote:
>> On Nov 27, 2007, at 8:11 AM, Pierce T. Wetter III wrote:
>>> On Nov 25, 2007, at 1:27 PM, David BON wrote:
>>>
>>>> Following the link on the wocommunity Web site related to Apple =20
>>>> support for WebObjects, I wonder what does the following sentence =20=

>>>> mean, now that the Apple development tools are deprecated?
>>>>
>>>> Support in key areas
>>>> (...)
>>>> WebObjects development tools
>>>> (...)
>>>
>>> It means Eclipse is a much better development environment for Java =20=

>>> then XCode, so Apple bowed to the inevitable and now supports =20
>>> WOLips as the development tool for WebObjects and is even =20
>>> sponsoring it to some extent.
>>
>> It means Eclipse proponents are very vocal, dislike beauty and =20
>> elegance, and think they could talk in the name of the entire WO =20
>> community.
>
>
> Georg, this becomes tiresome.  I suspect that you would count me as =20=

> an Eclipse proponent  :-) and I am fairly sure that that I don't =20
> dislike beauty or elegance.  I don't find Eclipse to be beautiful =20
> nor elegant.  I did not find Xcode to be either.  But I do admit to =20=

> finding Eclipse to quite effective at developing WO applications.  =20
> That is a feeling that Xcode never evoked.
>
> But, really, you did not come here to whine, did you?  I have no =20
> doubt of the sincerity and depth of your dislike of Eclipse.  And =20
> you are not alone.  I read a quote somewhere to the effect of "If =20
> Eclipse is state of the art, then the art is in quite a state!".   I =20=

> can't argue against that.  But there is one thing that I don't know =20=

> that I would very much like to know.  I don't know _why_ you think =20
> Eclipse is ugly and inelegant.  I am looking for specifics here.  =20
> I'd find it hard to believe that icon size and tab appearance are =20
> what gnaws at your sensibilities.  You are a deeper thinker than =20
> that.  You have stated several times how truly awful Eclipse is.  =20
> Yet, when asked why all I have seen you respond with is bugs.
>
> So I am inviting you now to be part of the solution.  Share your =20
> ideas with us.  Please.  Eclipse, as I am certain you know very =20
> well, is an platform for creating development environments.  It is =20
> not a "set in stone" application wrapping make/jam/ant like Xcode =20
> is.  It is a wildly configurable and tweak-able platform.  We have =20
> the power and the desire to make it better.  So please, take some =20
> time to help us understand what is wrong and what would make it =20
> right (or even better).  It will make for a more  usable product.  =20
> It probably still won't make you happy, but it might make you =20
> happier.  Look at Thomas.  He came complaining of things missing.  =20
> Then he got specific.  And those issues were addressed and the =20
> Component Editor is much better for it.  What we would like to see =20
> are things like:
>
> 1. I don't like that I have to _______  when I want to _______.  It =20=

> would be much better if I could just ______.
>
> 2. Having the _________ shown as ________ makes it very hard to =20
> understand.  If they were done as ________ or _____ that would be a =20=

> lot better.
>
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> --=20
>
> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their =20
> overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific =20=

> problems.
> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
>
>
>
>
>
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