Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Taking system administration guidelines from Quark probably goes in the bad-life-decision bucket. An application that writes into its own application folder is fundamentally flawed. Eclipse SHOULD have a base install that is read-only and then write any custom things into ~/Library/Application Support/Eclipse. I'll grant that in the scheme of things, it might not be that big of a deal, but that doesn't make it right.

ms

On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:44 AM, Theodore Petrosky wrote:

> my 2 cents about /Applications
> 
> I manage a network with mostly Managed Mobil Users. These are people working in Quark, Indesign. I had to make the /Applications/Quarkxpress world writable or it wouldn't work correctly.
> 
> I don't know that this is so 'bad'.
> 
> Ted
> 
> --- On Thu, 10/7/10, David LeBer <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> From: David LeBer <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: TurnKey Installer Components
>> To: [email protected]
>> Cc: "WebObjects-Dev Mailing List List" <[email protected]>
>> Date: Thursday, October 7, 2010, 11:21 AM
>> 
>> On 2010-10-07, at 11:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
>> 
>>> Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible
>> life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be
>> tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I
>> think this is officially a religious argument at this point.
>> I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel
>> good ........ with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if
>> he puts it in /Applications.
>>> 
>>> Should we switch over to debating optimal code
>> formatter preferences and curly brace placement?
>> 
>> I vote for Jeremy to not put it in /Applications because I
>> like kittens... a lot. I also vote for someone to put an
>> alias on the desktop 'cause I really want to see Mike punch
>> EVERYONE in the face.
>> 
>> Loading up on popcorn and getting comfy, this should be
>> good.
>> 
>>> 
>>> ms
>>> 
>>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote:
>>> 
>>>> How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as
>> admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> That's because you either made it
>> world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which
>> is kind of evil.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ms
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have put eclipse into /Applications
>> forever and I've never had a single problem with
>> permissions.  I think that is a non-issue.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran
>> Kelleher <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> David,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree
>> with Mike and others. ;-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In summary 2 good reasons for installing
>> in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate
>> users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for.....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep
>> writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that
>> 'stump' newbies into giving up too early.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2) Painless migrations to new machines
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Kieran
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David
>> Avendasora wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm pretty against ~/Applications.
>> Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an
>> installer that's targeted at getting new users up and
>> running install in a place other than the normal
>> /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not
>> _normal_.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If they're advanced enough to want it
>> in ~/Applications then they can move it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy
>> Matthews wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I had no idea what I was getting
>> myself into....heh.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This is for newbies...generally
>> speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a
>> choice...dunno yet.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike
>> Schrag wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I was the same until
>> recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy
>> over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my
>> home directory instead.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If eclipse kept it's
>> plugins and other global config in my home directory I would
>> have no reason to keep it there also.
>>>>>>>>> welcome to one of the
>> longest-standing debates in eclipse history
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ms
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> ;david
>> 
>> --
>> David LeBer
>> Codeferous Software
>> 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing'
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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