Re: agx: Moving forward

Martin Aspeli wrote:
> Daniel Nouri <daniel.nouri@...> writes:
> 
> 
>>I'm maybe being too picky.  You're right:  One class per module is
>>common practise with AT projects, for better or worse.  With Genesis we
>>shouldn't really have that 1:1 relationship anymore.  Genesis aims to be
>>a general purpose code generator, and the one class per module is really
>>only an AT convention, and it feels all javaish and clumsy to me.  But
>>that's really details we shouldn't be getting into now.
> 
> 
> It's nice if it's configurable, but it's hard to make any decent rules unless
> it's an all-or-nothing approach. How is Gensis to decide where you want your
> classes? Also, as classes get longer, having multiple in the same file makes it
> difficult to find the one you're looking for, and makes it harder to grep only
> in a specific context.
> 

+1 for making it configurable.  Or maybe use the concept of UML packages
to also create modules?

> 
>>Of course I should use docstrings.  But do the empty docstrings that
>>ArchGenXML generates for me really help?  Because thank you ArchGenXML,
>>I think I can type in the triple quotes my own when I need them!
> 
> 
> I quite like that it leaves the blank ones there to make it patently obvious
> that whoever didn't fill in the documentation in the UML or in the code really
> ought to have done so. :)
> 
> Still, that kind of thing is very easily made configurable.
> 

Whether an empty docstring is more alarming than no docstring at all is
really a matter of taste.  So +1 on making this configurable too, but
have the default generate no code that's technically of no fscking use.

> 
>>>Well sure, but it's obviously a file that isn't finished. How can you 
>>>judge a CASE tool by people leaving unfinished files around?
>>
>>Well, empty files that lie around seem like "common practise" for the
>>projects that I see.  It's really nasty for someone who tries to get
>>into the project and contribute to see those empty files around.  So I
>>say "Death to the ArchGenXML generated code in Genesis"!  Working around
>>the ArchGenXML stuff in a project that aims to learn from its
>>predecessor's mistakes is no fun.
> 
> 
> Sorry, this doesn't really make sense. If people want to abuse a tool, we can't
> very well stop them. How is AGX to know that your class is empty or unfinished?

Right.  My point is really that ArchGenXML has been improperly used for
generating Genesis code.

> As for using AGX to spec out Genesis, it seems a resonable way to get started.
> Turn your argument around: if they discover the files it generates are difficult
> to work with, they're more likely to fix that in the new code.

And in the old??

> The bigger picture is that model-driven, properly documented code is a very good
> idea. Simply hacking up some python here and there is likely to leave us with a
> new mess to clean up. At least if there is a UML model that's up-to-date of the
> internal software design, it's easier to understand and easier for people to
> contribute.

It wasn't my intention to hack up python here and there.  These thrown
together UML files don't really help with anything.  That's what it
looks like right now, *not* what it could be.  OTOH, I can name you
quite a number of projects that aren't going the UML- driven approach
and are doing excellent, primarily because they're well thought-out and
well tested.

> Whether the whole genesis project will be done using AGX is a little doubtful,
> since it's not really about content types, which is what AGX now predominantly
> produces. But starting out with models seems like a worthwhile goal to me.

I can live with a UML model if its *complementary documentation*.

> 
>>>Last I heard, the "compromise" was to call it "AGX Codename Gensis",
>>>which  I think achieves exactly the opposite of reducing confusion. :)
>>
>>I think I agreed with Jens on the Snowsprint.  Anyone who wants to spend
>>more cycles on this, please speak up now.
> 
> 
> Sorry, agreed on what? A total rename or to keep the AGX moniker?

Genesis


Daniel



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