Re: Archetypes <-> TICLE

This is the why not base on archetypes discussion. I've looked over the
source code, and i'm neutral on the matter, but I do want to play devil's
advocate for edification purposes. I'm just responding to simon's reply see
the wiki page for the original strongly worded suggestions.


On 10/7/03 8:07 AM, in article [email protected],
"Simon Pamies" <[email protected]> wrote:

> (taken from plone.org)
> some interesting comments from:
>=20
> http://plone.org/development/current/projects/ticle_folder/proposal#botto=
m
>
>=20
> Archetypes --spamies, Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:05 -0500
> <http://plone.org/development/current/projects/ticle_folder/proposal#msg2=
00310
> [email protected]>  reply
> <http://plone.org/development/current/projects/ticle_folder/proposal?subj=
ect=3DA
> rchetypes&amp;in_reply_to=3D%3C20031007110905-0500%40plone.org%3E#bottom>
> I also agree basically with that view. But we have some goals that do not
> match the way that the Archetypes.ReferenceEngine?
> <http://plone.org/development/current/projects/ticle_folder/proposal/edit=
form?
> page=3DReferenceEngine>  is going:
> * TICLE should deal with 1.000.000 objects and more - I do not think that=
 the
> Archetypes engine can do that

Why not? What makes it unable to scale to these dimensions?

> * The UID engine do not follow any standards - some of the developers
> supporting TICLE absolutely want that feature

This is trivial to alter, ben has already done some work on this and other
reference machinery archetypes cvs.

> * The Archetype relations are not objects - that makes it difficult to ad=
d
> clean m:n relations or even metadata on objects

I'm not sure what makes you think that can't be objects... Because they can=
.
See plonecollectorng for example of this. Or look at archetypes cvs where
they are explictly relation objects now.

Well that=B9s the whole point of basing on archetypes, extending the existing
functionality of the archetypes reference engine with the higher level
relation semantics of ticle.

> * The engine itself should be useable without Zope/Plone. Archetypes are =
very
> plonish=20
> Our approach:=20
> * Implement that engine without using Zope Core Classes (only ZODB based)

What benefit is that? I would think that you have to reinvent so much
infrastructure to make it useful that it seems without much merit?

What sort of features are you planning on a pure zodb level?

=20
> * Programming Zope Layer
> * Programming CMF/Plone Layer that uses Archetypes and perhaps extend tha=
t
> wonderful Product. Perhaps we can map the ReferenceEngine?
> <http://plone.org/development/current/projects/ticle_folder/proposal/edit=
form?
> page=3DReferenceEngine>  methods to the TICLE engine. That will be the
> intergration into the Archetypes Reference Engine..

Well if its not going to be part of the implementation than I don't see muc=
h
point to gluing archetypes, as that=B9s a low level interface, and the
interface of interest is the higher level one.

Perhaps you could refine the goal of ticle as stated from the webpage below
to make this zodb/zope api layers more clear.

Ticle deals with the placeless content paradigm, with relations and
constraints, with links between objects, with RDF and quite a lot of other
things.
=20
Browsing through the archives I see mention of lots of items relating to
metadata, metadata harvesting, topic maps, rdf. Can the relation of these
technologies to ticle be more explictly defined with reference to its goals=
?
For example, Is rdf schema something that=B9s core, or is rdf export the
functional intersection of these terms.

From what I can make of it, ticle is trying to provide a content repository
with rich semantic relations.

Once again, I'm neutral wrt to an archetypes impl... Just thought someone
should play devil's advocate ;-).

Apologies in advance if this arrives twice, I'm testing the gmane gateway.

sincerely,

-kapil






-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program.
Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive?  Does it
help you create better code?  SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help
YOU!  Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/