Re: do we need plone.app.customerize? was: [Plone-Users] Insufficient privileges on folder_contents

Lennart, two things:




For workflows TTW you don't need the ZMI anymore; plone.app.workflowmanager is very nice and generates diagrams of the workflow on demand. 




I have thought a lot about how to manage hundreds of sites, each custom to a small or very large extent, in the (long term) easiest and least risky way. For many devs, repeatability is important so you do things through code and push your tested changes out via deployment scripts. For maintainers of large scale shared environments, that is not ideal, in fact far from it. The TTW aspects of Plone are what allowed us to deploy the way we have at UW Oshkosh and I'm sure at other places. Take away those TTW features and we can no longer support Plone here the same way. 




So please don't dismiss our concerns! Instead tell us how to solve problems and support Plone installations of this size without asking that our marketing and other non devs become comfortable with Python or ZCML or buildout and ssh. 




Kim

—
920-292-0863 mobile/Google Voice

Sent from Mailbox for iPhone

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:07 AM, Lennart Regebro <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I agree it's important to have a TTW story for Plone.
> You can today, without creating a Python module (or even use
> third-part modules) do loads of things:
> 1. Create new content types with new schemas.
> 2. Import themes and modify them.
> 3. Change the workflows and permissions.
> 4. Set up "collections" that will update automatically.
> 5. Choose what information is shown on different pages by setting up
> portlets, including worklists.
> 6. Set up email notifications for various events.
> 7. And of course infinite amounts of minor configurations.
> 8. And I probably even forgot something.
> This allows you a lot of TTW flexibility. The only thing of this you
> even need to go to the ZMI for is if you want to make new workflows. I
> have customers where I set up a demonstration server of Plone to see
> if they liked it. They did. A year later they wanted some changes, and
> it turned out they took that plain Plone demo site and started using
> it as a procurement management system. :-)
> Now of course, there is another level of flexibility given when you
> can create new templates, and the next level of flexibility is when
> you can develop things in Python. And I do want a story to make that
> easy. But does it really have to be TTW to be easy? The only benefit I
> can see with TTW is that it allows me to fix urgent bugs in minutes
> instead of say, 15 minutes. I don't think the drawbacks are worth it.
> I think it's perfectly fine to draw a line between configuration and
> development, and say that configuration is TTW and development is not.
> I know there are a lot of people doing TTW development and saying that
> it is an absolute must, but I'm not 100% convinced that you haven't
> actually looked into the alternatives that are available.
> So are there alternatives to TTW? Well, how about a way to let you
> edit a jbot directory remotely, via WebDAV, as long as you are in
> development mode. As just an idea. I'm sure there are other
> alternatives and somebody can come up with an even better way to do
> it. But I really don't think that Plones TTW story needs the feature
> of allowing us to edit templates through a browsers shitty built-in
> editor. That is not the actual feature people want when they talk
> about Plone and TTW. Neither is the feature they want the possibility
> to store Python code in the ZODB. That's not what gives you the added
> value.
> //Lennart
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT 
> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance 
> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your 
> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-developers mailing list
> Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT 
organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance 
affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your 
Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk

_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers