Re: do we need plone.app.customerize? was: [Plone-Users] Insufficient privileges on folder_contents

You are mentioning your requirements in the form of existing
solutions, and that makes it hard to know exactly what your
requirements are and why you use these solutions. I can extract  some
requirements:

1. You want to be able to change Python code without restarting the
client or ZEO.
2. You want to use some real text editor to edit code on the server.
3. You want to be able to create forms and content types without Python coding.


On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 2:41 AM, T. Kim Nguyen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lennart, what you are asking for then is a complete set of requirements for
> large shared site owners, is that correct? I'm imagining what a "typical"
> site request we get includes.
>
> Custom banner, maybe with clickable link back to root of site. One or more
> randomly chosen banner images.
>
> Customizations to the default theme installed with our policy product. That
> can include different colours, fonts, CSS, JavaScript.
>
> Custom footer
>
> Call to action buttons in a portlet (now a static text portlet with some
> styles in TinyMCE)
>
> A slider or two
>
> A basic layout for the front page with content well portlets.
>
> That's for a basic site.
>
> For more complex sites, creation of new view templates for AT content types
> (I'm not big on Dexterity yet). Scripts (Python) to do various custom
> things. PFG with custom script adapters. Custom script to allow creation of
> new indexes so they can appear in collection criteria. External Methods
> because we like to see changes live without zeo client restart or running
> client in fg (can't do that on production servers) (ok that does involve
> file system access).
>
> You have mentioned the unhappiness of editing code through a text widget.
> For complex scripts and templates we copy paste to Sublime or some real
> editor. Used to use ZopeEditManager but that seems hard to get working these
> days.
>
> You have mentioned repeatability. For our use cases, repeatability isn't
> that important. We need something to work just this once on this side. If we
> think it might be useful for other sites, we paste it into a how to that
> does onto uwosh.edu/ploneprojects. Or we put it into our svn repo. But
> mostly these are one offs.
>
>    Kim
> —
> 920-292-0863 mobile/Google Voice
>
> Sent from Mailbox for iPhone
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Lennart Regebro <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]> wrote:
>> > On 13 Dec 2013, at 12:07 am, Lennart Regebro <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> This allows you a lot of TTW flexibility. The only thing of this you
>> >> even need to go to the ZMI for is if you want to make new workflows. I
>> >> have customers where I set up a demonstration server of Plone to see
>> >> if they liked it. They did. A year later they wanted some changes, and
>> >> it turned out they took that plain Plone demo site and started using
>> >> it as a procurement management system. :-)
>> >
>> > exactly. Wouldn't it be nice if that code was actually maintainable and
>> > used techniques that were the same as you use on the filesystem?
>>
>> I don't follow you. What code?
>>
>> >> Now of course, there is another level of flexibility given when you
>> >> can create new templates, and the next level of flexibility is when
>> >> you can develop things in Python. And I do want a story to make that
>> >> easy. But does it really have to be TTW to be easy? The only benefit I
>> >> can see with TTW is that it allows me to fix urgent bugs in minutes
>> >> instead of say, 15 minutes. I don't think the drawbacks are worth it.
>> >
>> > For you yes. to someone who doesn't know buildout, eggs, IDEs, ZCML, GS,
>> > no. It's enough to make you use Wordpress. As even many in the Plone
>> > community do when they want a simple site. I want to grow the community. We
>> > can't do that by only pleasing those who already know Plone.
>>
>> No, you make the very mistake I tried to prevent and explain in the
>> post you commented in. You see the benefits of TTW as inseparable from
>> how things work right now. I'm saying that this is not the case. I'm
>> saying we need to identify what you need, exactly, and solve that in
>> ways that do not have the current drawbacks.
>>
>> > The way it gives the added value is by not requiring anything to be
>> > installed, configured or any skeletons. You can develop on a cloud service,
>> > a AMI image, a VM or any other way you can have Plone running. That makes
>> > Plone incredibly accessible. People just want to customise their site as
>> > easily as they can. They less they have to learn or struggle with to get
>> > there the more popular the CMS will be. We've just done TTW badly in the
>> > past. We can fix that.
>>
>> My question still is why you need code in the ZODB, and why you need
>> it edited through the browsers built in text field, and why you
>> absolutely have to not have your code versioned. If you don't need any
>> of that, then you are arguing about the wrong thing.
>>
>> //Lennart
>>
>>
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