Re: I hate complexity in HTML/CSS/JavaScript

On Die, 2013-12-24 at 23:31 +1100, Dylan Jay wrote:
> 
> On 24 Dec 2013, at 11:13 pm, Dylan Jay <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On 24 Dec 2013, at 10:16 pm, Alex Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi folks,
> >> 
> >> Is it me, or is it inherently complex and inelegant to merge Plone's 
> >> "legacy" HTML/CSS/JavaScript with a clean and modern HTML5 theme 
> >> configured via Diazo?
> >> 
> >> I just picked up the Plone again for a new project and I'm stuck by how 
> >> much I hate the idea of Diazo rules that merge HTML/CSS/JavaScript from 
> >> Plone with my theme.
> >> 
> >> Why do I hate this?
> >> 
> >> Because before the merge I know what HTML/CSS/JavaScript are included in 
> >> my theme, typically Bootstrap. After the merge "more stuff works" but I 
> >> now have a mess of HTML/CSS/JavaScript to sort through and ponder the 
> >> effects of. Or so my perception goes.
> >> 
> >> Am I alone here? Are Rok Garbas and others fixing this I hope?
> > 
> > 
> > That was the original intent behind p.a.toolbar. Keep the assumptions and css and js you have to include in your theme to the absolute minmum by keeping all the widgets etc for the backend only.
> > However there is debate going on at the moment if this how it's going to be in Plone 5. There is a feeling that we should include all of plone.app.widgets with it's css and js into the front end theme since all plone sites need forms and widgets and plugins that do things on the frontend need a stable known environment to make it easier to develop against.
> > IMO this works well for those implementing intranet type applications were they use a lot of plugins but don't need much control over the theme. It works poorly for those that need to create many new themes, or convert existing themes into plone as often happens when theming public sites.
> > It seems it's not clear which is the best way to go.
> > 
> >> 
> >> Thanks 
> >> for any thoughts. Maybe one simple fix is to document what 
> >> HTML/CSS/JavaScript from Plone are being merged.
> 
> btw, we have one solution we use to help solve the case where a designer is building from scratch but don't know plone well.
> 
> https://github.com/collective/plonetheme.diazoboilerplate41

also note: if you want to use sunburst's editing UI but not depend on
the invasive general layout and styles of sunburst, you might want to
follow the instructions here:
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/plonetheme.sunburst#how-to-depend-on-sunburst-for-your-custom-theme

i had quite a good experience with it, by leaving out a lot of default
sunburst styles, as described above. actually, i hadn't to fix the
mockups from a designer to play together with sunbursts editing UI
anymore.



> 
> Unfortunately not yet documented.
> 
> The idea is that it's a diazo theme which you can build upon but it already includes the minimum styles and html you need for most functions of a plone site. No JS though.
> If you install it you can generate some example html pages and give them to a designer for them to build on. The generated html contains the same classes as the rules require of the content html. This means the generated html can be used as a theme/mockups in the same diazo theme without having the to change the rules file.
> 
> This allows a workflow of
> 1. install boilderplate theme
> 2. setup dummy content and home pages using plone
> 3. Save dummy themed content and home pages and send to designer. they look very basic.
> 4. Install dummy content and home pages back into diazo.
> 5. tweak rules in case designer did decide to change the html
> 
> What would be a nice addition to this process is for automated generation of additional dummy pages that included all the standard tinymce styles and portlet types etc.
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Happy holidays to all the Plone,
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Alex
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> Alex Clark · http://about.me/alex.clark
> >> 
> >> 
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> 
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