Re: VIDEO: Simplifying Plone with tiles and shortcodes

The way I see it we have two main problems with the current implementation

* difficult to turn a page into a section
* when a folder has a default view it's not intuitive that they're two
distinct objects and causes problems with search etc

With dexterity solving the first seems very simple you just need an action
"make folderish"**.

I have a lot of sympathies with people wanting to keep an out of the box
folder type.  Maybe we just need an action on folders "make pagish"** which
adds the necessary fields and switches the display.

** better labels to be confirmed


On 25 March 2014 20:00, Sean Upton <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]> wrote:
> > Folders aren't going away, they will just be the same thing as pages. or
> > another way to think of it pages disappear and folders gain rich text.
>
> I believe that the folder metaphor itself matters to many or most (new
> or existing) end-users, quite a bit.
>
> Pushing that metaphor away as a anachronistic skeuomorphism might make
> sense when you are only managing pages or pieces thereof, but I
> suspect that many developers, integrators, and users leverage Plone
> for more than just that narrow WCMS context.
>
> For intranet/extranet, or structured content management, the folder
> metaphor is a useful organizing principle (e.g. users need a
> container, but it doesn't itself need a page, or if it has a
> front-page, it is incidental, not central to its function).
>
> > If you wanted it would be trivial to create a folder type based on page
> > which had a folder listing tile already installed. Same for collections.
>
> I worry that pushes configuration-over-convention on end-users for two
> common use-cases.  If pages and folders have shared implementation,
> pushing that commonality up to users is a leaky abstraction when they
> want a folder to come out of the gates showing listings, having a
> distinct icon, being queryable by type in a collection or search.
>
> My $0.02 is that folder (regardless of what implements) needs to be
> listed in the add-new menu.  OTOH, maybe the core problem is a lack of
> per-instance, user-exposed subtyping OOTB that makes it impossible to
> re-think content types and what shows up in the add menu [1].
>
> > If we don't we may never improve. Not everyone might agree but I also
> think
> > it's more important to put priority on new user experiences rather than
> > existing user experiences.
>
> I am not sure these need to be mutually exclusive?
>
> Sean
>
>
> [1] I really wish for choices in the add-menu to list more than just
> content types / FTIs in the traditional sense. e.g. type + template
> (subtypes configured/chosen/marked as per-instance behaviors, custom
> icon chosen, default content, default tile/view/whatever).  And make
> the vocabulary of choices a union of site-defaults and per-folder
> templates users can configure themselves.  Having such things makes it
> easier to say, "folder is just a special type of page" (etc).  Tiles
> and shortcodes (being only views of, not proper subtyping) may not
> necessarily be the ideal or sufficient subtyping mechanism, and might
> mask the contstraints of the current content-type system.
>
>
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