Re: Plone 5.0b2-pending available for testing
sven <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.zope.plone.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 big +1 for including into docs.plone.org On 05/27/2015 03:10 AM, Nathan Van Gheem wrote: > Dylan, > > Yes, this is really good advise on how to write tickets. > > It'd be great if this was documented somewhere. Even if we just had an > entry on docs.plone.org <http://docs.plone.org> for it. > > On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Dylan Jay <djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected] > <mailto:djay-n0pU0XVUApFWk0Htik3J/[email protected]>> wrote: > > In moving things to the tracker I'd really like shift us as a > community from focusing solutions in these tickets and discussions > to user problems. > For example hector has brought up some really important usability > issues with the vertical toolbar but approached it with mostly a > solution in mind (use horizontal). I notice many of our other > tickets also are titled by the feature to implement rather than th e > problem they solve. What I've noticed over time is the reasons can > get lost in the implementation process and in many cases the featu re > gets implemented even when the problem has gone away or gets > implemented in a way that doesn't solve the problem. I've noticed > this with tickets within our own company as well as plone. > With this in mind I've been raising UX tickets with plone in the > following format. > > Title: too much mouse to get to 2nd level vertical toolbar menu > > User problem: > The user has to move down to click to open a second level then > travel to up top of that list in many cases such as adding a new > page. Less movement is better. > > Internal: > Currently the toolbar works horizontally and vertically and uses t he > same markup for each. > > Options: > 1. Use horizontal menu with vertical drop downs. > 2. Have a single combined 2nd level that can be always visible > 3. Start 2nd level vertical menus at the click point so you just > move across and down > 4. Use a vertical open close accordion style menu so the move > continues to travel down. > > The idea of the internal section is to ensure the user problem is > described without reference to internal considerations. If the end > user can't understand but it affects the problem or possible > solutions then it goes in internal. > > On 26 May 2015 20:24, "T. Kim Nguyen" <nguyen-z4DKO/[email protected] > <mailto:nguyen-z4DKO/[email protected]>> wrote: > > All right... Let's maybe take this off the mailing list and on to > the issue tracker? We are clearly not going to stop working on > Plone 5 :) and we are so close we are hoping to release this > fall, at least this is what the launch team is planning for. > > Kim > > On May 26, 2015, at 8:12 AM, Nathan Van Gheem > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> I would also like to add that no UI is perfect. There will be >> compromises for every decision we make. >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 7:57 AM, Nathan Van Gheem >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Hector, this is not something we just decided to do >> overnight. The toolbar ideas have been floating around, >> discussed, show and worked on with stake holders, etc for >> probably 3 years now. CMSUI was the start of it. >> >> The Plone 4 UI wasn't great either and has many >> deficiencies. You and your users were just used to it. >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Hector Velarde >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> I made a compilation to avoid spamming you with my >> opinions. >> >> On 05/26/2015 12:34 AM, Dylan Jay wrote: >> > Looks like hectors points are mostly about making >> current status visible. >> >> HV> no, those are just the most obvious issues and th e >> other you >> mention, the distance the mouse pointer has to travel >> from one click to >> another, is also an issue that I had already noticed >> from the first time >> I used the vertical toolbar. >> >> On 05/26/2015 01:02 AM, T. Kim Nguyen wrote: >> > Let people choose, even if you think one is better >> than the other. >> Even > on Mac OS we can choose where to put the dock. >> >> HV> +1 >> >> On 05/26/2015 01:03 AM, Nathan Van Gheem wrote: >> > It's not that simple. If providing both OOTB makes >> both less good, it >> > might not be a good idea to try and support both. >> >> HV> and that's why huge UI/UX changes should have bee n >> done in a >> different way, letting people testing them in Plone >> 4.3 as add-ons, for >> instance. >> >> my point here, Nathan, is that we have to avoid this >> kind of issues in >> the future. >> >> we created this impasse when we decided to start >> running in search of >> Plone 5 instead of walking fast: we opened too many >> fronts; we were >> overwhelmed; we didn't get the feedback in time and >> when we got it, we >> were unable to adjust to it. >> >> complex systems are non-linear and you need shorter >> feedback loops on >> them; Plone is a complex system. >> >> On 05/26/2015 07:06 AM, Ramon Navarro Bosch wrote: >> > * Most wide screens are used , so more usage of th e >> browser space >> >> HV> then the liquidness of the current theme must be >> fixed: >> >> https://github.com/plone/Products.CMFPlone/issues/528 >> >> > * On mobile the actual implementation ( a bit bugg y >> but it should be >> > easy to solve ) needs to be vertical also so for >> using the same order >> > and make it easy to find options was good to >> maintain the vertical >> > toolbar on desktop >> >> HV> IMO, that's not a valid point as most content >> creators use desktop >> computers, and most content consumers use mobile devi ces: >> >> http://www.datamation.com/mobile-wireless/online-cont ent-consumption-shifting-from-pcs-to-tablets.html >> >> > It was more than one year ago, talking with rok >> about it that would be >> > great to have this option, the experience of other >> cms systems using >> > vertical bar and the reasons I pointed out made us >> decide to offer a >> > toolbar that has left vertical default behavior, >> with the option to put >> > on top. >> >> HV> I personally don't know in depth the content >> creation story of other >> CMS, but I know the one on social networks and I >> already mentioned that >> in a previous post, so my vision is limited here. >> >> on the other side, what I remember from having seen >> other CMS content >> creation process is that it happens totally isolated >> from the final >> viewing experience. >> >> last week we were demonstrating Plone for a new >> customer who is moving >> away from Joomla! and they were really pleasured when >> they saw editing >> not in a totally different screen, but in the same >> site layout. >> >> > On the other hand, we now have three production bi g >> plone 5 sites ( and >> > some small ) and the users have never complained >> about it, most of them >> >> HV> good to hear that, but we need more feedback: >> what's the goal of the >> site? what kind of content they are creating? were >> they using Plone 4 >> before? for how long? what do they like about the new >> interface? what do >> they dislike? how they compare with the previous one? >> we need >> UX/usability studies to evaluate the whole story. >> >> > the left, some ideas like showing byline on the >> content area is a matter >> > of skinning depending on the site. >> >> HV> it's the current default behavior and, as I >> already pointed out, >> we're changing too many things on the UX. >> >> in the kind of sites we create (mainly news sites and >> government sites) >> this behavior is the standard. >> >> On 05/26/2015 05:41 AM, Paul Roeland wrote: >> > but let's at least wait for a bit more diversity in opinion: in two and >> > a half weeks, Plone Symposium Tokyo takes place, pe rfect time to ask >> > users and developers what their opinion is; it may be less arbitrary >> > when your script runs not LTR. Then again, it may b e, but let's ask. >> >> HV> +1 >> >> ----------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------- >> One dashboard for servers and applications across >> Physical-Virtual-Cloud >> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ >> applications >> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you >> Actionable Insights >> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using >> APM Insight. >> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292 ;y >> _______________________________________________ >> Plone-developers mailing list >> Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org >> <mailto:Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-de velopers >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Nathan Van Gheem >> Solutions Architect >> Wildcard Corp >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Nathan Van Gheem >> Solutions Architect >> Wildcard Corp >> ------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------- >> One dashboard for servers and applications across >> Physical-Virtual-Cloud >> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ application s >> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you >> Actionable Insights >> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insig ht. >> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y >> _______________________________________________ >> Plone-developers mailing list >> Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org >> <mailto:Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------- > One dashboard for servers and applications across > Physical-Virtual-Cloud > Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications > Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionabl e > Insights > Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insigh t. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y > _______________________________________________ > Plone-developers mailing list > Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org > <mailto:Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers > > > > > -- > Nathan Van Gheem > Solutions Architect > Wildcard Corp > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Plone-developers mailing list > Plone-developers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVZUTRAAoJEMipVdWfKjFjkE8H/iZ/beZlPs1AY1Q0wq81KswK jEwlXyty5g8hgNvYvg2wjtS76fGFMJMthAZv6JgtKGmqmWOBpxxvcVUgQP0k+LNl NzYtDPIQGjyCeMx1uHf4QtgBg9UrQAz/TFQ+YhsouHtX0Zc3BpWczDkK2KNjOl/n Pj6QUQnQ5Qag/1obKY0l0pixhYsWtEuPwAMCP8Og3+QE+VHPAkwQHg4HhWiUDYwO e/AWDYdjNZ64t342sm2PJH8GLLY5b+L6IJ8Hm4ogMlqa1geHJl/vuDvvp/xN/S2B LpbYRXWWiQjO5ajbcQL+uhshJSvCHq4u+I2frbnuW2j/Tcf7t4E16JCm190+z1M= =aSAt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------