Re: [Board] Roadmap and Release schedule for Plone 5.2 and 6.0

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Hi Teams!

We discussed the whole thing in a hangout and reached a consensus.

Here's what we decided:

- We will release Plone 5.2rc1 this week
- We will publish the roadmap =
(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u_brtRx3lmw6-RORncZDJ59p_1bHaQEUENFb9=
1K5l24) after some polishing this week. It is as usual not a law but a =
condensed version of the ongoing discussion in the Plone community.
- We will invite all developers to a remote sprint on March 14 to test =
and improve the Database-Migration documented in =
https://github.com/plone/documentation/blob/5.2/manage/upgrading/version_s=
pecific_migration/upgrade_to_python3.rst#database-migration
- We will release Plone 5.2 final on March 30. The release-notes for 5.2 =
may state (depending on the outcome of the above sprint) that the =
Database-Migration von Python 2 to 3 may be not as stable as we'd like =
them to be and that consecutive bugfix releases will address possible =
issues.
- We will form a group from all teams to plan the release. It will have =
a weekly hangout to coordinate and track progress. That will also give =
us a forum to postpone the release if a real blocker may come up.

I'll personally try my best to test the Migration, work on the =
Upgrade-Guide (already started this morning) and update the Mastering =
Plone Training. If anyone has any issues either with missing docs, =
broken features or such please create a ticket of contact me.

Cheers,
Philip

--
Starzel.de
Philip Bauer
Dilsberger Stra=C3=9Fe 9
81245 M=C3=BCnchen
Tel: 089 - 189 29 533
[email protected]
www.starzel.de

> Am 01.03.2019 um 11:06 schrieb Gil Forcada Codinachs =
<[email protected]>:
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> as for the "until a final release is made nobody tests it" I have a =
solution: let's wrap up the blockers for 5.2, make it final AND CLEARLY =
LABEL that:
> - it is ONLY meant for new projects (i.e. migrations are still not =
100% guaranteed)
> - for BRAVE souls that want to try Python 3
> - fine and dandy for python 2 projects
>=20
> And now the marketing twist on it: see that the release will be 5.2 ? =
When the migration/documentation/translations are on a better shape, =
let's release that as 5.3 because it will be supporting python 3 just =
fine (I guess the marketing team will have plenty of better ideas, but I =
came up with that while reading these mails :D).
>=20
> With my release team hat on: in the last month 2 PLIPs have been =
merged (faster navigation and redirects control panel), which I have =
seen quite a few follow up pull requests these last weeks, i.e. they =
don't feel rock stable. On that same vein the i18n controlpanel =
interface move from CMFPlone to plone.i18n is missing an upgrade step =
(see =
https://github.com/plone/Products.CMFPlone/pull/2769#issuecomment-46633563=
6)
>=20
> I admire and wholeheartedly support all the effort you all put in =
porting the code and trying to keep up with keeping Jenkins happy, but =
at the same time I can not feel comfortable making a release if we are =
merging PLIPs and pull requests right and left without taking the extra =
time to ensure all pieces are in place.
>=20
> There are plenty of organizations that make odd releases as unstable =
and even releases as stable. For quite a while we have labeled 4.3 as a =
LTS release (we are already on 4.3.18!) so, as said above I would be =
fine having 5.2 out as a final release but with a TP (Technology =
Preview) or whatever label.
>=20
> This way we have the best of both worlds:
> - the release is out and integrators can start their migration =
projects (even though they could have done that before anyway with a =
rc/beta/alpha...)
> - we clearly communicate that rough edges are still ahead
>=20
> As for keeping the peace with making frequent releases, on the release =
team we had a calendar to try to schedule 5.1/5.0/4.3 releases. We can =
try to aim for a monthly release of 5.2 if no major surprises are ahead =
but mostly bugfixes. On that front, we have a bus factor to make final =
releases as only the release manager is able to push to dist.plone.org.
>=20
> The sysadmin team told us that with the new infra being set up all the =
release team members will be able to push to dist.plone.org, so if we =
can make that happen, we will be able to increase the release frequency, =
and finally wish nice vacations to the release manager while the other =
release team members handle releases.
>=20
> As for 6.0, in general I'm against roadmaps that are being discussed =
by 2, 3 people and then thrown over the wall. What's the urgency of =
having a 6.0 roadmap if we still haven't finished not only 5.2 but =
specially all the database migration problems? I get the idea of =
promising a bright future with super cool frontends, tune up backends =
and adapters everywhere, but that can easily backfire (and it has =
already happened, hello from Plone 5.0!) specially if you are adding =
dates to those promises...
>=20
> Sorry if it feels stop energy, I hope only this last 6.0 paragraph, I =
provided a few options for 5.2, but that's my 0.2 cents on the matter =
:-)
>=20
> Side note: as soon as/before we release 5.2, please communicate in =
advance if someone jumps and creates a 6.0/5.3 branch of =
buildout.coredev/cmfplone and expects that mr.roboto/jenkins and all the =
integrations are in place. AFAIK this is a release manager decision. I'm =
not against it, just that I (or whoever wants to help) need to adjust =
quite a few variables here and there and deploy new jenkins jobs and =
what not.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Gil
>=20
> Missatge de Philip Bauer <[email protected]> del dia dv., 1 de mar=C3=A7 =
2019 a les 9:17:
> Good Morning!
>=20
> I'm aware that is not my place to decide and that we need to agree on =
a release-date. But unsurprisingly I disagree. I've stated multiple =
times over the last year that a release-date of 5.2 early in 2019 is =
critical. We were aiming for February, so we're already is month late =
with the proposed date of 30.03.2019.
>=20
> The reasoning behind a early release is not new: The Plone community =
suffers from a severe case of hen-and-egg syndrome. Until a final =
version is released nobody tests that new version. And once it is =
released people complain that it was not tested properly. The only way =
out of that is to release early and follow-up with bugfix-release as =
soon as serious issues are found and fixed.
>=20
> I'm certain that postponing the release by two month would not lead to =
more testing. Why should people start testing migrations now when they =
have not done it between November and now? Most people will only test it =
when the release is out.
>=20
> But with 5.2 we have even greater urgency. There are people and =
organizations who are required to move to Python 3 by 1.1.2020. Giving =
them as much of a head-start as possible by release 5.2 by the end of =
march seems critical to me.
>=20
> We urged time and time again that people should start planning and =
testing their migrations to 5.2 and Python 3 asap. We tried to make it =
as easy as possible and much more accessible that ever before:
>=20
> * We created a nightly demo-buld of 5.2 coredev that was online since =
May 2018 (http://demo-latest-py3.plone.org and =
http://demo-latest-py2.plone.org)
> * We documented how to test 5.2 in various Python versions.
> * We documented the migration to Python 3 in detail =
(https://tinyurl.com/plonepy3).
>=20
> There are still many things to do as Paul mentioned:
>=20
> * Translations need to be updated. English and German seems ok, others =
less so.
> * The migration-guide from 5.1 to 5.2 needs some work. I'm on it.
> * The porting-guide seems in a good state already.
> * The Installers need to be updated.
> * Marketing-Material and Newsitems needs to be prepared. The document =
that Timo and I started could to help with that =
(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u_brtRx3lmw6-RORncZDJ59p_1bHaQEUENFb9=
1K5l24)
> * Parts of the documentation need to be updated.
>=20
> None of this is a surprise. I don't see what should stop us from =
finishing these tasks in time for March 30th. We should get our shit =
together and do it.
>=20
> Philip
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > Am 01.03.2019 um 06:31 schrieb sven <[email protected]>:
> >
> > Hi !
> >
> > Same here, well said !
> >
> > I am only talking here about the documentation part, the current =
state of the docs for 5.2 and 6 is far away from publishing.
> >
> > Also, since we are on it, I would like to ask where I can find docs =
of Plone 6, like the new UI, etc.
> >
> > We started to rewrite and rebuild the whole docs from scratch, so =
far this is working well and the quality, readability, etc improved a =
lot.
> >
> > But since we have no idea what of the current docs will stay and =
which parts will be different we just have some basic covered, yet.
> >
> > Please let us know (Open an issue) about docs of Plone 6.
> >
> > The same goes with with things like bobtemplates, will they worl =
with Plone 6, should we adjust or remove them from the 'core' docs ?
> >
> > Thanks !
> >
> > On Thu, 2019-02-28 at 22:20 +0100, Paul Roeland wrote:
> >> hi people,
> >>
> >> although it's not the role of the Board to direct the technical =
direction of Plone, I do want to signal that I have serious concerns =
about the proposed timeline for 5.2.
> >> Not only as a member of the Board, which has to keep an eye out for =
marketing, but also as member of the documentation team.
> >>
> >> I think one month between having a RC1 and a final is way too =
short. There is still a lot of polishing to be done, in (at least) the =
areas of
> >>      =E2=80=A2 documentation
> >>      =E2=80=A2 translations
> >>      =E2=80=A2 real-world testing of migrations to Python3
> >>      =E2=80=A2 development of installers that work for both Python2 =
and Python3
> >>      =E2=80=A2 ... and probably more
> >> One of the criticisms that were uttered (not always in the nicest =
way, but that's beside the point) is that we should do better at Quality =
Assurance. That is also a marketing issue.
> >>
> >> So, while I fully support the idea of an ambitious to aggressive =
timeline, and also that we should reach RC status (meaning no more new =
features), I would strongly plead for more time, and a few RC releases. =
And then do a final around, let's say, June 1.
> >>
> >> 5.2 is an important release; it has been argued that in terms of =
effect it could have been a major release. Then, by all means, let's =
take it serious enough so that we have satisfactory translations, =
documentation, marketing messages, and a reasonably battle-tested =
migration experience before we call it a Final.
> >>
> >> Paul Roeland
> >>
> >> (Note: I'm only arguing urgently for a slowdown on the 5.2 release =
schedule. I like the ambition on the 6.0 schedule, although also there I =
think we're going to need a longer polishing time to make sure that we =
release with good translations, documentation, installing instructions =
and the like. In general we just need some time between feature-freeze =
and a good Quality-Assured release, with ribbons and glitter around it)
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 12:39 PM Philip Bauer <[email protected]> =
wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Release-Schedule:
> >>> - rc1 next week
> >>> - final: 30.03.2019
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Plone-installers mailing list
> >> Plone-installers-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> >>
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-installers
> >>
> >
>=20


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