Re: Tour of ZODB

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Christopher Lozinski <
[email protected]> wrote:
...

> You talked about storages, encryption,
>

https://github.com/zopefoundation/cipher.encryptingstorage

(and ZeroDB, although IIRC the ZeroDB storage is more tightly tied to
ZeroDB).

compression.
>

https://pypi.python.org/pypi/zc.zlibstorage

There are probably others.

>There are migration frameworks.
> Please name them.
>

Well, I wrote zope.generations, but there are others.

Critique.
>    Your software is great, but you need to work on communicating the
> concepts.  You talk about value proposition.  Okay what is the value
> proposition?
>

Ease of use/natural programming model. And a few other concepts, but mainly
ease of use.



>   Is that the last slide?
>

No, the last slide is just a summary.



>   It should be the first,
>

It is.


> and then expand on each of those points.
>

Did that.


>   Focus on the concepts that the user has in their mind at any one time.
> Build on those concepts.
>

I can't know what they have in mind, other than hoping that they're
following along.



> The application interface you showed does not highlight the power of the
> ZODB.
>

I disagree, well...


>   It could just as easily have been done on relational database.
>

No. Because with a RDBMS, you'd need to construct queries, or use an ORM.
Testing would be a pain.  No GC...


>   Something like PythonLinks.info shows how well the ZODB displays
> hierarchies.
> Parts are 10 levels deep.   Shortly PrivaCV.com will show how well it
> manages graphs.   Are there any other applications out there which
> demonstrate graphs on the ZODB?
>

Honestly, I don't care (much) about hierarchies/graphs.  For me, that's not
a core value.  Representing relationships is a core value, and I emphasized
that in my talk.

Some people think hierarchies are wildly important to ZODB. That's fine.
They can tell their ZODB stories.  There are lots of applications that I'd
use ZODB for that don't have hierarchies.  It's also not that hard to deal
with hierarchies a modern RDBMS.

Maybe in a future update, I might call out graphs/hierarchies in a separate
slide, but it wouldn't be a core value.

Oh, and this app does have a hierarchy: sites contain boards contain
features contain tasks. Boards also contain states and substates.



> Actually, given that almost no one knows anything about the ZODB, I think
> the place to start is with the introduction.  And then finish up with the
> value proposition, or better yet, comparison to alternatives.
>

Whatever. :)  IMO, people need to know why it's worth learning about ZODB.
My goal with this screencast is to give them a reason.


> You talk about ACID.  I invite you to grab my ACID slide, it has graphics,
> and definitions.  It is available as Creative Commons Non-commercial.
>

Link?


> Ditto for Caches.
>

Link?


>  You just cannot do justice to caches with words.  It is too complex.  A
> picture is worth a thousand words.
>

It's actually very simple. Data you need is in memory if you've accessed it
recently. You don't have to worry about cache invalidation because the
database does that in a transactionally consistent way.

...


> And of course you miss out on the most interesting piece.  When you commit
> a transaction, it updates the client application!  We have all been waiting
> for that.  Just do a video of that product.  What is it called?
>

I have no idea what you're talking about. I show the web application
updating to reflect a change.


>
> Sound quality is good.  Video quality is good.   Length is good.
>

Actually, I notice a hiss.  I probably need a better microphone (or maybe
recording software) to fix that. Also, my voice sounded a bit tired,
because that was likely my 20th recording.  I was lazy/cheap and used
quicktime to make the recording, which makes editing
difficult/impractical.  The length would be shorter (and hissing less
noticeable) if I edited out some quiet times while I was finding my place
in my script.

I'll probably re-record this soon.


> Anyhow I am delighted to see that you are putting energy into publicity.
>

This is hardly the first time. I've spend a lot of time on documentation.


> I hope that these comments help.
>

They are appreciated.


> Could you be so kind as to send me a copy of your slides?
>

They are linked from the video.  The source of the slides and my script can
be found here:

https://github.com/zopefoundation/ZODB/tree/tour/misc/tour

I've been using hovercraft lately.

Jim

-- 
Jim Fulton
http://jimfulton.info

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