Re: Re: In defense of the ZODB

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Just stop with these pointless tries to redefine or rename the ZODB. The=20
ZODB is around for almost 20 years. We have a clear understanding what the=
=20
ZODB is and where it should be used for and where not.  And something like=
=20
"...optimized in C" is pointless. Please stop this marketing nonsense.=20
There are no new markets for the ZODB. The ZODB is still a solid solution.=
=20
But for decent applications with decent requirements regarding=20
functionality, scalability etc. we have better options than 10 or 20 years=
=20
ago. And again, there are no new markets and there are no new=20
opportunities. Customers don't care about the underlaying data storages in=
=20
customer projects, developers don't care much about the ZODB. THat's the=20
situation. Not much to be added.

-aj

Am Montag, 29. Oktober 2018 08:40:14 UTC+1 schrieb Christopher Lozinski:
>
> There really are different target markets.  And those different target=20
> markets think different things.=20
>
> There is the community of computer scientists.  They have definitions for=
=20
> hierarchical databases, relational databases, object-oriented databases,=
=20
> and graph databases.  It was useful to read the wikipedia definitions of=
=20
> those different types of databases.  The ZODB does primarily fall into th=
e=20
> Object-Oriented category, although it has a lot of similarities with the=
=20
> hierarchical and even with the graph database.  (It has nodes, directed=
=20
> edges and properties but not a query language nor graph theory behind it)=
. =20
> So the computer scientists are happy calling it an object database.  And=
=20
> have understandable objections to calling it a graph database.=20
>
> I think that there is another group of people.  The average user of=20
> relational databases.  They are aware that there is a lot of complexity=
=20
> mapping back and forth.  They know that they have a =E2=80=9Cgraph" of Py=
thon=20
> objects.  They like the idea of a =E2=80=9CGraph Database=E2=80=9D.  For =
them it is just a=20
> "graph of objects", without the mental baggage that the computer scientis=
ts=20
> carry with them.   Maybe, like me, they have not read the Wikipedia=20
> definitions.  At the next conference I go to, I will survey the different=
=20
> world views.  It will be interesting to see how that market thinks about=
=20
> these things.=20
>
> In any case, a lot of the computer scientists sit on proposal review=20
> boards, and so in the future I will title my talk: =E2=80=9CZODB, the Obj=
ect=20
> Database for Python Developers=E2=80=9D.   With that change, I will proba=
bly get a=20
> lot more acceptances.  Thank you.
>
> But it is also important to connect with what the average user is=20
> thinking.  I propose the following description.=20
>
> =E2=80=9CZODB is an object database implemented in Python and optimized i=
n C. =20
> Just subclass off of the persistent classes and your objects, graphs, and=
=20
> applications become persistent.=E2=80=9D
>
> I hope that approach will satisfy everyone.  Maybe there are some people=
=20
> who only see one point of view, and will not be happy that I used the wor=
d=20
> graph.  We will see.=20
>
> Warm Regards
> Christopher Lozinski
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Just stop with these pointless tries to redefine or rename=
 the ZODB. The ZODB is around for almost 20 years. We have a clear understa=
nding what the ZODB is and where it should be used for and where not.=C2=A0=
 And something like &quot;...optimized in C&quot; is pointless. Please stop=
 this marketing nonsense. There are no new markets for the ZODB. The ZODB i=
s still a solid solution. But for decent applications with decent requireme=
nts regarding functionality, scalability etc. we have better options than 1=
0 or 20 years ago. And again, there are no new markets and there are no new=
 opportunities. Customers don&#39;t care about the underlaying data storage=
s in customer projects, developers don&#39;t care much about the ZODB. THat=
&#39;s the situation. Not much to be added.<div><br></div><div>-aj<br><br>A=
m Montag, 29. Oktober 2018 08:40:14 UTC+1 schrieb Christopher Lozinski:<blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-=
left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word=
"><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">There re=
ally are different target markets.=C2=A0 And those different target markets=
 think different things.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:n=
ormal;line-height:normal;min-height:47px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">There is the community of compute=
r scientists.=C2=A0 They have definitions for hierarchical databases, relat=
ional databases, object-oriented databases, and graph databases.=C2=A0 It w=
as useful to read the wikipedia definitions of those different types of dat=
abases.=C2=A0 The ZODB does primarily fall into the Object-Oriented categor=
y, although it has a lot of similarities with the hierarchical and even wit=
h the graph database.=C2=A0 (It has nodes, directed edges and properties bu=
t not a query language nor graph theory behind it).=C2=A0 So the computer s=
cientists are happy calling it an object database.=C2=A0 And have understan=
dable objections to calling it a graph database.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;min-height:47px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">I think t=
hat there is another group of people.=C2=A0 The average user of relational =
databases.=C2=A0 They are aware that there is a lot of complexity mapping b=
ack and forth.=C2=A0 They know that they have a =E2=80=9Cgraph&quot; of Pyt=
hon objects.=C2=A0 They like the idea of a =E2=80=9CGraph Database=E2=80=9D=
.=C2=A0 For them it is just a &quot;graph of objects&quot;, without the men=
tal baggage that the computer scientists carry with them. =C2=A0 Maybe, lik=
e me, they have not read the Wikipedia definitions.=C2=A0 At the next confe=
rence I go to, I will survey the different world views.=C2=A0 It will be in=
teresting to see how that market thinks about these things.=C2=A0</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;min-height:47px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal=
">In any case, a lot of the computer scientists sit on proposal review boar=
ds, and so in the future I will title my talk: =E2=80=9CZODB, the Object Da=
tabase for Python Developers=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0 With that change, I will prob=
ably get a lot more acceptances.=C2=A0 Thank you.</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;min-height:47px"><br></div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">But it is also=
 important to connect with what the average user is thinking.=C2=A0 I propo=
se the following description.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stre=
tch:normal;line-height:normal;min-height:47px"><br></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">=E2=80=9CZODB is an object d=
atabase implemented in Python and optimized in C.=C2=A0 Just subclass off o=
f the persistent classes and your objects, graphs, and applications become =
persistent.=E2=80=9D</div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line=
-height:normal;min-height:47px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-str=
etch:normal;line-height:normal">I hope that approach will satisfy everyone.=
=C2=A0 Maybe there are some people who only see one point of view, and will=
 not be happy that I used the word graph.=C2=A0 We will see.=C2=A0</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;min-height:47p=
x"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:norma=
l;min-height:47px">Warm Regards</div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:=
normal;line-height:normal;min-height:47px">Christopher Lozinski</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;min-height:47px">=
<br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:39px;line-=
height:normal;min-height:47px"><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

<p></p>

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