Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

>
> Yup. Now let's drop the "3" in that sentence, because all of this 
> applies to Zope software as a whole. This is, in fact, one way to sum 
> up the way the Zope project as a whole works.
I have no problem with that. The simpler the better. As long as the new 
comers learn Zope 3 and not Zope 2.
>> Maybe we can learn from the javascript libraries? The first time you 
>> pick the whole package. Later when you have become more familiar with 
>> the library you only include the parts that you really need. But that 
>> is not how you start!
>
> Absolutely.
>
>> Zope 3 should IMO have a "click clack install" version that makes the 
>> first little app a piece of cake. Add to that a story about 
>> flexibility and automated testing; then even I would buy it ;)
>
> http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/zopeproject is probably the fastest 
> and easiest way to get started nowadays. One command and you're set up 
> with a sandbox. If you haven't got Zope 3 downloaded yet, it will do 
> so as well. It selects a set of libraries that are common in most 
> applications and installs them by default. You can, of course, get rid 
> of them later on.
I will have to look at zopeproject. Without having looked at it - My 
guess is that I would like a little more flesh on the bones - like 
z3c.form(demo). Remember it is for people who are *new* to Zope. I would 
love to see a set of extjs widgets as well.
> Then of course there's Grok (http://grok.zope.org) which builds on the 
> Zope Libraries and aims at making it all much easier. It too has a 
> "click clack install" along the lines of zopeproject; it's called 
> grokproject. And a while ago, I demonstrated how you could create a 
> TodoList application in 15 minutes with it: 
> http://www.archive.org/details/grok_todo_part1. Note that Grok has 
> evolved a bit since then and adding any kind of ZCML or working with 
> the ZMI is unnecessary nowadays.
I have looked at Grok. I love the ideas. But it feels like its a little 
too much convention over configuration. I do not hate zcml. I hate to 
write zcml. If there was a way to auto generate zcml and way to 
overwrite that zcml when needed - then I would be a happy man. 

/Oliver