[GeneralDiscussion200802]
[email protected] (betabug)
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.zope.zwiki |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <20080530023035-0700__4108.89482959664$1212139980$gmane$org@zwiki.org> |
From simon Mon Feb 4 15:11:42 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:11:42 -0800 Subject: outage Message-ID: <[email protected]> The server was down this morning due to a failure of memory-limiting and mail notification scripts. Sorry about that. From User123 Tue Feb 5 04:54:33 -0800 2008 From: User123 Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 04:54:33 -0800 Subject: Message-ID: <[email protected]> Requirement is like a user from one machine should access the documents uploaeed on zwiki which located on some another machine..(might be on server machine ).Could you give me early pointers. From simon Wed Feb 6 15:59:19 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:59:19 -0800 Subject: translation process Message-ID: <[email protected]> FYI: I just cleaned up and proposed a new translation process at http://zwiki.org/I18n . If you're interested in using Zwiki in other languages and maybe contributing a translation or two (it's easy!), I recommend you subscribe to that page to listen in. From SimonMichael Thu Feb 7 11:40:22 -0800 2008 From: Simon Michael Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:40:22 -0800 Subject: darcs patch: replace: subscriberCount, wikiSubscriberCount with: su... Message-ID: <20080207194020.632093525D0@pool-71-107-253-58.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net> | Thu Feb 7 10:51:56 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * replace: subscriberCount, wikiSubscriberCount with: subscriberCount, pageSubscriberCount, wikiSubscriberCount From simon Thu Feb 7 11:58:15 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:58:15 -0800 Subject: experimenting Message-ID: <[email protected]> Experimenting to find a sane process here.. From SimonMichael Thu Feb 7 12:00:09 -0800 2008 From: Simon Michael Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:00:09 -0800 Subject: darcs patch: replace: subscriberCount, wikiSubscriberCount with: su... Message-ID: <20080207200007.6FF8D352A78@pool-71-107-253-58.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net> | Thu Feb 7 10:51:56 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * replace: subscriberCount, wikiSubscriberCount with: subscriberCount, pageSubscriberCount, wikiSubscriberCount From simon Thu Feb 7 12:24:12 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:24:12 -0800 Subject: darcs patch: replace: subscriberCount, wikiSubscriberCount with: su... Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <20080207200007.6FF8D352A78@pool-71-107-253-58.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net> Applied. From SimonMichael Fri Feb 8 20:00:25 -0800 2008 From: Simon Michael Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:00:25 -0800 Subject: darcs patch: strip some bottom-quoting from mailins Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Fri Feb 8 19:59:36 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * strip some bottom-quoting from mailins From geon Tue Feb 12 22:55:35 -0800 2008 From: geon Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:55:35 -0800 Subject: not in Google Message-ID: <[email protected]> Before upgrading to 0.60 our zwiki site was well placed in Google. After upgrading we move somewhere to 100.place :-(. Our unicode signs are wrong reprezented on search result on Google. F.e. insted of "í" there is "Ã". I think it might be due to <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">. Could it be so? Where to change it? Thanks a lot. From zwiki-repo Wed Feb 13 02:31:55 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:31:55 -0800 Subject: applied patch: strip some bottom-quoting from mailins Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Fri Feb 8 19:59:36 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * strip some bottom-quoting from mailins | | M ./Extensions/mailin.py -5 +6 | M ./Extensions/mailin_tests.py -3 +47 | Fri Feb 8 19:59:36 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * strip some bottom-quoting from mailins From simon Wed Feb 13 02:42:27 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:42:27 -0800 Subject: test 1 Message-ID: <[email protected]> test 1 From zwiki-repo Wed Feb 13 03:07:31 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:07:31 -0800 Subject: applied patch: more CHANGES updates Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Wed Feb 13 03:07:04 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * more CHANGES updates From zwiki-repo Wed Feb 13 03:23:07 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:23:07 -0800 Subject: applied patch: add the nav links to the help page, testing Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Wed Feb 13 03:22:40 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * add the nav links to the help page, testing From simon Wed Feb 13 04:16:58 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:16:58 -0800 Subject: not in Google Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Hi geon. If that's so, you can change it in one or more templates in ZWiki/skins/zwiki/. From simon Wed Feb 13 04:22:19 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:22:19 -0800 Subject: new patch submission process Message-ID: <[email protected]> Finally.. after much "fun" with the plumbing, we have an easy patch submission process. Basically, no more patch approval required. The previous process works well for many projects, but it's needlessly heavy for us right now. There was the approval delay and also, the surprising requirement to be subscribed to zwiki.org before you could darcs send a patch. Now, just darcs send and it goes in immediately. I, and now Sascha, also have direct push/pull access. Either way, commits happen at full speed. Each new patch sends a notification to the PatchDiscussion page for code review. For security, zwiki.org is now running on a separate, admin-maintained copy of the main repo. Also the server does not run tests for you, so do run tests yourself before sending. The DarcsRepos docs have been updated accordingly. Hacking on Zwiki code is now as easy as it should be! Here's hoping for some positive code churn. From zwiki-repo Wed Feb 13 04:33:46 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:33:46 -0800 Subject: applied patch: More functional tests: recentchanges and options Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Wed Feb 13 03:20:39 PST 2008 [email protected] | * More functional tests: recentchanges and options From zwiki-repo Wed Feb 13 04:33:58 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:33:58 -0800 Subject: applied patch: optimise the bottom-quoting regexp a little.. I suspect it's blowing up memory on mailin Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Wed Feb 13 04:30:18 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * optimise the bottom-quoting regexp a little.. I suspect it's blowing up memory on mailin From zwiki-repo Thu Feb 14 12:23:05 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:23:05 -0800 Subject: applied patch: split links macro so we can omit the page-specific nav links on forms Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Thu Feb 14 12:00:45 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * split links macro so we can omit the page-specific nav links on forms From zwiki-repo Thu Feb 14 12:44:40 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:40 -0800 Subject: applied patch: add site navigation links to all forms Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Thu Feb 14 12:44:02 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * add site navigation links to all forms From zwiki-repo Thu Feb 14 12:44:55 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:44:55 -0800 Subject: applied patch: move access key help to help page Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Thu Feb 14 12:41:14 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * move access key help to help page From simon Thu Feb 14 14:24:02 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:24:02 -0800 Subject: Happy Valentine's Day from Zwiki HQ Message-ID: <[email protected]> A happy Valentine's day to all! Continuing with my spring cleaning theme, here are some musings. Like many of you, I'm always wondering where is the most useful place to spend my community hacking time. Sometimes Zwiki seems like the very best place; other times it doesn't. Development pretty much came to a full stop at times last year. So I'm kicking around some ideas. First, let me get one thing off my chest: Python is a `blub <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blub>`_! There, I said it. Then there are the recurring questions of project and platform maturity, legacy cruft, how many people actually use this thing, what is the benefit, what's the future potential, etc. Don't get me wrong, I expect Python and Zope 2 to keep growing and succeeding for a very long time. And so I guess Zwiki will continue to be used and perhaps grow in user base. At the current rate of development, though, we will not stay competitive with other software or even catch up with our own bug reports. Looking at current code, I am reminded that Zwiki 0.x is mature, built on early zope 2 architecture, and that cleanup continues to be expensive (compared to starting something fresh). Of course, many hands make light work. Imagine ten developers working on Zwiki at once - cleanup expense would no longer be noticeable, we could pretty much do whatever we want. That's not our current reality. Is it possible to find ten Zwiki developers now or in future ? I'm sure I could increase our numbers (from two active) by sustained effort, but how far and how smart a strategy that is I don't know. Another idea which started this post is to branch, mothballing 0.x as-is and moving development focus to a Zwiki 2.x where we would do aggressive disruptive cleanup. Say we did that. What would you throw out of Zwiki 0.x ? What would you keep ? This is to air my thoughts and also a kind of ping to gauge support for the project circa 2008, I guess. Thanks! From tralala Fri Feb 15 00:48:22 -0800 2008 From: tralala Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:48:22 -0800 Subject: Happy Valentine's Day from Zwiki HQ Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> I've been asking myself very similar questions about zwiki. I don't think python or zope are a limiting factor, however zope2 seems to encourage the coding of huge classes and zwiki has followed the fashion. I found it difficult to dig into the code and understand the concepts behind. I believe that using zope3 or five in order to reduce the complexity and improve the readability of the code will help attracting new devs. Additionally for lowering the barrier to entry we should think of putting design documents on zwiki.org - something of a bird eye view of the project, the concepts, the assumptions, the philosophy... you get the idea. From jmax Fri Feb 15 09:13:20 -0800 2008 From: jmax Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:13:20 -0800 Subject: Happy Valentine's Day from Zwiki HQ Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Moving away from big classes is a definite plus. I'm interested in a simpler, more extensible object model; imagine being able to easily subclass wikipage to specialize UI/behaviour for different site applications. Also, just a thought: the current comments system could be chucked out and re-done in a more OO way. ZWiki going in earnest to Zope3 would be a motivation for me to take Zope3 seriously; unless ZWiki goes there, I'm not all that interested, as everything I do with Zope nowadays uses ZWiki as the platform. From zwiki-repo Sat Feb 16 14:52:10 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:52:10 -0800 Subject: applied patch: add nav links to contents form too Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Thu Feb 14 12:50:06 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * add nav links to contents form too From zwiki-repo Sat Feb 16 14:52:23 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:52:23 -0800 Subject: applied patch: drop the "discussion" nav link activated by GeneralDiscussion, it is a special case and confusable with per-page discussion Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Sat Feb 16 14:49:56 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * drop the "discussion" nav link activated by GeneralDiscussion, it is a special case and confusable with per-page discussion From zwiki-repo Sat Feb 16 14:52:24 -0800 2008 From: zwiki-repo Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:52:24 -0800 Subject: applied patch: don't break showAccessKeys legacy url Message-ID: <[email protected]> | Thu Feb 14 12:49:24 PST 2008 Simon Michael <[email protected]> | * don't break showAccessKeys legacy url From SimonMichael Sun Feb 17 00:55:05 -0800 2008 From: Simon Michael Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 00:55:05 -0800 Subject: A Zwiki roadmap Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> All - thanks for the interesting feedback on zwiki.org, zope/plone-user lists and #zwiki channel. Based on this I see the following as a good roadmap. - Plone needs native wiki-ish solutions that fit the Plone model. It's time to stop chasing Plone, remove the CMF/Plone support (simplifing code and skins), and focus on plain Zope 2 as our platform. - Ideally there would be one last release to fix cosmetic issues with current Plone 3 support. Anyone who wanted Zwiki in Plone would use this version. This, call it Zwiki Classic, would enter mothball/deep maintenance mode. (We might call it 1.0. Don't freak out. I'm just saying.) - New development would focus on a 2.x branch where we would drop backwards compatibility, do very aggressive cleanup and generally make our life easier. Other priorities would be all-unicode, ease of hosting, pluggability and modularisation, moving to zope3 technologies, and extracting reusable python/zope3 libs. This would be a refactor not a ground-up rewrite - we should be able to use it pretty much right away. - Z3wiki (the all-zope3, ZPL zwiki codebase) might be able to use and help extract libs from above. I don't expect to work on z3wiki directly myself because Zope 2 is our mainstream appserver and because I prefer to spend most of my time in GPL-land. So there is one possible path into the future, though I don't yet know how far down it we'll go. zwiki.org has a hundred subscribers, but I'm not hearing strong support/interest/need. And there are other projects and other implementation strategies to explore. One basic issue is that with wikis proliferating and traffic intensifying, 100%-dynamic, memory-intensive wikis are not always economic. Eg for slashdottings and for busy developers, an RCS-based solution like ikiwiki is attractive. And so on. Just pondering; we shall see. As always, further thoughts welcome. -Simon From SimonMichael Sun Feb 17 01:06:28 -0800 2008 From: Simon Michael Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 01:06:28 -0800 Subject: A Zwiki roadmap Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> PS in case you're wondering why I sent that *five times* - zwiki.org's iptables had started blocking incoming mail connections for some reason. Once I flushed the iptables rules, previous attempts went through. From betabug Mon Feb 18 00:30:33 -0800 2008 From: betabug Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 00:30:33 -0800 Subject: A Zwiki roadmap Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Simon, I think you put it down perfectly. We'd discussed this on #zwiki, and I believe you summed it up very good! From simon Fri Feb 22 00:48:25 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:48:25 -0800 Subject: ZWiki-unstable Message-ID: <[email protected]> I have pulled all the latest work from main ZWiki into the ZWiki-unicode branch, and renamed this to ZWiki-unstable. Here we'll work on the 2008 roadmap plan I mentioned (linked at FrontPage -> download box). The next step is to set up a second zope instance running this, and a wiki. Probably a copy of zwiki.org, to give the unicode stuff a workout. dev.zwiki.org ? unstable.zwiki.org ? From MichaelAng Fri Feb 22 00:57:50 -0800 2008 From: Michael Ang Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:57:50 -0800 Subject: Message-ID: <[email protected]> dev.zwiki.org is more generic. Any plan to move to svn? From simon Fri Feb 22 02:31:54 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:31:54 -0800 Subject: ZWiki-unstable Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Ok, dev.zwiki.org it is. That site (when up) is running the -unstable code. Sorry, no plan to move to svn. Heck, I have four better alternatives. I have been talking smack about trying out git, hg or maybe bzr (in that order). I do still love darcs, even though merging those branches was darn slow. Just now I got a little drastic and tried zwiki.org itself on -unstable, to save time. Things were worse than expected and we backpedalled. But just to warn you, I'm ready to break a few eggs:: <sm> I want to fix, remove, or retire stuff, and without a lot of expensive development time spent on trivia <sm> heck, who uses zwiki.org these days but the bots <sm>everyone who needs to has read it » sm likes this new world of unstable From simon Fri Feb 22 03:45:44 -0800 2008 From: simon Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:45:44 -0800 Subject: zwiki.org snapshot Message-ID: <[email protected]> dev.zwiki.org now has a snapshot of zwiki.org content where we can debug issues. Please don't link directly to that site, I'd like to keep it bot-free and quiet. From betabug Fri Feb 22 23:45:48 -0800 2008 From: betabug Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:45:48 -0800 Subject: zwiki.org snapshot Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Don't forget to put in a robot.txt to exclude all bots there. What about making the "Roadmap 2008" a proper page here, so we could also put up things like your "micro roadmap" - the one you mentioned on #zwiki for what's to do immediately:: sm notes micro-roadmap: get tests passing in ZWiki-unicode, then pull, resolve & test each patch from ZWiki From SimonMichael Sun Feb 24 14:17:15 -0800 2008 From: Simon Michael Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:17:15 -0800 Subject: zwiki.org snapshot Message-ID: <[email protected]> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> I did so (robots.txt). RoadMap2008 ? Good idea, I was thinking the same. From SimonMichael Sat Mar 8 13:09:00 -0800 2008 From: Simon Michael Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:09:00 -0800 Subject: update Message-ID: <[email protected]> Good day all, a quick update: - I've made the zope memory monitor on zwiki.org check *resident memory* instead of total virtual memory. I expect this to reduce the restart frequency, which was getting silly as I ran some tests on other zope. - I pushed a bunch of skin cleanups to ZWiki-unstable. This came from my efforts to clean up the zope 3 wiki skin and make it easier to maintain on the filesystem. It's now possible to specify an alternate filesystem skin directory (layered over zwiki) with a "skin" property (or request var.) - I also pushed some more unicode fixes. I'm starting to feel a little more optimistic about this. There are just two major things I know that are broken - 1. indexing of some unicode content, which must be solved by newer and better catalog products, and 2. upgrading non- unicode wikis - there is some chicken and egg with updating the outline cache and unicoding the pages during upgrade. dev.zwiki.org is running the latest code and breaks on zwiki.org content, but it seems to handle the zope 3 wiki content pretty well on my macbook. -- forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion200802#[email protected]