Re: FVWM: deprecated? placing firestorm windows?

Dominik Vogt <[email protected]> writes:

> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 10:36:58PM +0200, hw wrote:
>> Dominik Vogt <[email protected]> writes:
>> 
>> > On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 09:30:14PM +0200, hw wrote:
>> 
>> > [...]
>> >> IIUC, I explicitly told the window manager to ignore what the program
>> >> tries to do about the placement of the windows it creates, and yet the
>> >> window manager still allows the program to do (part of) what it wants
>> >> rather than what I told the window manager to do about the window
>> >> placement.
>> >> 
>> >> So either the window manager is ignoring what I'm telling it to do, or
>> >> the program is able to override the window manager, or both.
>> >
>> > That's exactly what I wrote.  The window manager cannot know that
>> > the application lies about the user's wish.  The situation is
>> > impossible to detect.
>> 
>> I don't understand: The window manager does not need to detect lies when
>> I tell it not to allow a program to move its windows and not to allow it
>> to create them at a particular position.  It only needs to enforce thes
>> policies, and the placement policy.
>> 
>> In this case, fvwm appears to be enforcing the creation and movement
>> policies correctly and the placement policy only partially.
>
> Then please enlighten us with the output of
>
>   bugopts explainwindowplacement on
>
> so we can see what's going on.  Fvwm just does what it's told, we
> haven't coded a glass ball inside it.

Thanks to your other post, I finally got this:


,----
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x1400010 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x1400032 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (ignored program specified position)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x1400027 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (ignored program specified position)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x140003d 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (ignored program specified position)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
`----


Oh, ok, there is actually four windows, not three.  I forgot about the
fourth one because I didn't get to see it.  A fourth window must somehow
have been created after Firefox said it had crashed a Tab and I was
missing a window after that.

Let's try this with three windows ... The result is the same, all on top
of each other at top left:


,----
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x1000010 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x1000027 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (ignored program specified position)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x1000032 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (ignored program specified position)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
`----


This looks to me as if fvwm does not apply MinOverlapPercent after it
ignores the program specified position.  Let's see what happens when
there is a window already on the page when I start Firestorm:


,----
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x800e25 'Terminal':
|   initial size 1146x746
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x1000010 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x100001e 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (ignored program specified position)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x100002d 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (ignored program specified position)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
`----


The windows are all placed on top of each other.  Am I doing something
wrong?  Let's try that with with no Firefox and some xfce-terminal
windows:


,----
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x801059 'Terminal':
|   initial size 1146x746
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x80108d 'Terminal':
|   initial size 1146x746
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 1146 0, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x8010cd 'Terminal':
|   initial size 1146x746
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 2292 0, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x8010e1 'Terminal':
|   initial size 1146x746
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 746, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
`----


This works as expected, the windows do not overlap.  Firestorm makes
fvwm ignore everything?  Let's see what happens when the Firestorm
windows are there and I open a terminal:


,----
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0xe00010 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0xe00027 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (ignored program specified position)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0xe00032 'Mozilla Firefox':
|   initial size 1280x2161
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 0 0, placed by fvwm (ignored program specified position)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
| 
| [fvwm][__explain_placement]: placed new window 0x8013e3 'Terminal':
|   initial size 1146x746
|   desk 0 (current desk)
|   current page
|   screen: current screen: 0 0 3840x2160 (current screen)
|   position 1280 0, placed by fvwm (normal placement)
|     placement method: MinOverlapPercent
`----


The Firefox windows are all on top of each other and the terminal is
placed right of them, as can be expected.

Any ideas?


BTW, I'm seeing


,----
| [fvwm][style_parse_and_set_window_style]: <<ERROR>> Bad style option: gnomeignorehints
`----


in the log file.  Why is this a bad option?