Re:

Reply,

I'll agree with Larry but a business movement is the last thing we will see
(IMHO).  Companies maintain H1B relationships and others because of the
corporate tax liability...basically there is none.  To conduct business this
way only exploits and overcasts the bottom line the companies report because
the taxes not paid are transferred as earnings.  This is the legal loophole
that Enron, WorldCom, and others tried to exploit to pad their bottom line.
But it is conclusive that the practice of hiring less than capable
programmers will cause a rift that company administrators won't see until
they have a black eye.

My opinion is that this degradation on the job market has been perpetuated
by recruiters who exclude competent programming skills and experience almost
to the point of age discrimination.  When your told your over qualified to
use VB. Net in VS 2003 someone has some very crossed wires.

If you have watched other sectors you will note some interesting
characteristics.  As a carpenter that later invested the education to enter
the industry as a 1982 IBM Sys36 Cobol and Fortran programmer, I now make
more money doing the finish trim on a custom home than any offer I've seen
in two years as a programmer.

Don't think that there is recovery anytime soon.  All indicators point to
programming being a $35K to $42K industry on average if recruiters are
allowed to continue there segregating grip on corporate HR.  We as US
citizens will further endure excessive tax liability because corporations
make these exploits and the W2 worker pays for more gorged budgets.

So what is the outcome.  Incorporate, maintain strict records so when your
taxes are filed the government gives you your next years operating capital
in the form of a refund.  If the job market was generating a correct index
then corporate earnings would out way the many, many deductions that
overwhelm revenues and lead to a phat corporate tax return.

I want to raise my earnings for next year, getting work is harder than
taking a loss for not getting the work.  A perpetual vacation instilled by
the present IT market that can generate a balanced P&L after the refund is
deposited.  On one hand it sux, but after your used to it you find it isn't
all that bad and you have plenty of time to read while those W2 workers
build the government coffers so I can get a good refund.

So hey everyone...work a little (4 months), then vacation (looking for work)
until your refunded all those expenses that took all operating capital and
extended your vacation.


Good luck

Bob Coward

-----Original Message-----
From: Unmoderated DOTNET job forum
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of David P. Brown
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DOTNET-JOBS]


Lighten up, please. I for one am enjoying this discussion.

Nice post, Larry. :)

David P. Brown
Sr. SQA Engineer
Kofax Image Products
Irvine, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Unmoderated DOTNET job forum [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Christine Larsen
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DOTNET-JOBS]

this is not a discussion group but a job posting board



-----Original Message-----
From: Larry O'Brien [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 4:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [DOTNET-JOBS]


> once the market picks up again, and it
> will, companies like this one will suffer tremendous turnover

Surely that's true, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they will go out of
business. To me, the overall market seems to be moving towards inexpensive
incompetence: under-specified, under-bid, and under-delivered projects. But
the monthly bill is less! I do not think software development professionals
have proved to business leaders that an understanding of software
development processes and practices translates into less expense in the long
run. Everyone on this list may know that the lessons of "The Mythical
Man-Month" still hold true, but does the average business leader? Or do they
think "Yeah, that's just the squawking of people who miss their foosball
tables and in-office massages"? I think that the gap between good software
development practices and average software development practices is growing
and I think that for that to change, there must be a movement in the
_business_ world, but if you read the business magazines or the
business-oriented software development magazines, this year's silver bullets
are outsourcing and cost control.

Just my depressed $.02 cents,
Larry
http://www.ThinkingIn.NET/