Re: Show of hands

Hello all,

I agree this is an interesting subject, and we should definitely discuss what 
kind of stuff we could/should collaborate on and in what form the output should 
be. In other words, the question is what our shells have in common, because 
apart from the "alternative shell" brand name, they're all quite different 
beasts with quite different goals. Add to this the fact that many of us haven't 
tried other shells in years (!) and the picture becomes far from clear. After 
all, in the year 2007, is there really that much to complain about for any of 
our shells? If there is, please enlighten me! ;)

Then there's the question of how many of us that really have something valuable 
to bring to the table and the possible implications thereof. Neil says that 
siaynoq currently does not contain any unique code (he does not make any 
predictions for the future), I can't say I've focused much on "common" issues 
lately (although I will eventually spend some time on improved Vista 
compatibility of course), but maybe Chris et al have worked their collective 
asses off on fixes that might also be of interest to the rest of us. Will that 
currently varying level of commitment to such "common" issues change if we try 
to combine our efforts? How do we avoid ending up with simplex communication 
originating from more or less the same group of people as today? Because if we 
do, then we may be better off with the current situation (and yes this may sound 
cynical but that's not the intention) where no one expects anything from anyone 
else, yet everyone can benefit from the spirit of open source just by reading 
the changes.txt's and source code of others as long as the rule of "credit where 
credit is due" is followed. In fact, just reading the changes.txt's for other 
shells can sometimes help or send you off in the right direction; a recent 
example would be the "Changed TaskbarCreated notification from PostMessage to 
SendNotifyMessage" for compatibility with Windows Vista fix as outlined by jugg 
in the latest LSDev release (see 
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1427677&SiteID=1 for more 
details, thanks for the heads-up btw jugg!).

So what kind of areas would be of broad interest? Vista compatibility, check. 
Related SysTray changes, check. "Install as shell" functionality, check. 
Multithreading stuff perhaps. Possibly DDE if that still matters today (?). And 
so on. Anything else? (I'm tired atm so I could only come up with the obvious stuff)

Finally, maybe we should also share our views on "the future of the alternative 
shell", because with each year that passes by it seems that our combined 
community shrinks a bit more (or perhaps it's just being diluted?!) Will it 
still be worth the hard work 1-2-3 years from now? How will *your* shell evolve? 
How will the rise of Vista, MacOS X 10.5 Leopard and Linux with Compiz Fusion 
affect us? Is there a place for alternative shells stuck in a 2D world when the 
regular desktop goes 3D? Is a move to .NET inevitable also for us in the 
medium/long term if we want to stay competitive? Maybe some new hotshot 
developer will suddenly appear and blow us all out of the water with mad 3D 
skillz? ;)

BR//Karl -> qwilk -> http://xoblite.net/

----------

> Hey All,
> 
>> I guess I'm aiming for a sort of common repository for code used in
>> all the extant shells.  Notification area, startup items, DDE, maybe a
>> VWM.  It should be in the form of a library, with anyone able to join
>> in its development.  So, the scenario becomes: shell A's dev team
>> fixes a problem with the notification area under platform X; they then
>> commit it to the common repo.  Shell B's dev team takes the code,
>> makes it better, and commits.  Shell A will have it the next time its
>> dev team integrates the changes.
>>
>> I'm sure it won't be as easy as that the first time around.  It'll
>> require possibly extensive changes on the each shell's development
>> cycle.  That's why I've opened this discussion first, to flesh out
>> details, instead of starting work on it and then expect others to use
>> it immediately.
>>
>> But I think it'll be worth it.  If it'll cut the time we each spend on
>> worrying out mundane details, enabling us to work more on actually
>> interesting stuff (like, maybe, Mike's idea of a common theming engine
>> for skinnable shells), then it'll prove to be worth the effort.
>>
>> We each steal code from each other (well, maybe not from me; I'm a
>> leech. :D) and then integrating it into our respective shells, anyway.
>>  Why not make it easier to collaborate and get better quality code?
>>
>> What do you guys think?
> 
> Sounds like an idea.  Like you mentioned, this has been tried before
> with Raptor and WinShellEx, hopefully we will have enough buy in from
> the various camps to have a serious go at it this time.
> 
> In terms of collaboration, it's been happening unofficially for quite
> some time (not so much code stealing only), but I've been working with
> BilliBerserker (from the SharpE devs) and ilmcuts (from LiteStep) for
> quite some time.  So if there is a concentrated effort it would be
> interesting to see what could be accomplished.
> 
> I guess the long and short of it is, count me in on whatever the plans become.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Chris
> 

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