Re: Discussing issues

Havoc Pennington writes:
 > 
 > Wait, I didn't say I was creating a new organization. At this point, I
 > am still trying to clarify what XFree86 wants to do.

Ok, maybe I was expressing things not quite right.
I was talking about the new organization that is 
currently in the making.

 >  
 > The last thing I have the bandwidth to do is create my own
 > organization - my immediate agenda for action is to decide what course
 > of action to advocate to Red Hat, GNOME, freedesktop.org, or whatever
 > groups I'm involved with. I assume the other people in those groups
 > are simultaneously developing their own opinions and at some point
 > we'll have to decide what to do as a group.
 > 
 > If another organization is created, I'm willing to advocate supporting
 > it, if that makes sense. But that's what I'm trying to figure out, and
 > it depends on the organization. I'm also willing to consider
 > advocating either of the two existing organizations, or some combined
 > organization. Tell me what makes sense.

How about two orgainzations that maintain a close relationship
to each other? To orgaizations that supplement each other.

 > 
 > If I just leave things alone to run their natural course, it looks 
 > like we get:
 > 
 >  - a project that does most of the API/feature work and tries an
 >    ambitious server rewrite
 >  - XFree86 that does most of the driver work
 >  - X.org doing some other API/feature work and owning nominal
 >    standards
 > 
 > So everyone has the choice of a) a platform that moves forward and
 > innovates but is understaffed on drivers b) a platform with good
 > drivers but no new features or c) X.org.
 > 
 > 
 > The reason I'm involved here is that the prospect of having 3
 > organizations, with none of them really meeting the need, is not a
 > good one. In fact it sucks.

I fail to see this. Why can't we have two organizations that
work closely together? We have been talking about scalability
and modularity. We naturally have different areas of interest
why do we need to press this into one organization?

 > 
 > I want to install an X package that provides a) good quality working
 > drivers and b) new API features and innovations.  My question is *how*
 > do you propose that I get that.


 > 
 > What's keeping me from doing this is that you say you aren't
 > interested in working with others in order to address the goals that
 > I've discussed. If you aren't interested in working with me, how am I
 > going to find ways to interface with you?

Oh, maybe you have misunderstood me:
I've never said I would not be interested to work with you.
I have expressed several times that I endorse the idea of
sharing a common base between different GUI projects to
prevent reinventing the wheel, have a somewhat unified behavior,
keep memory consumption lower by sharing more shared libraries 
accross GUI boundaries, etc.., and I'm glad that people finally
get over this NIH philosophy.

 > 
 > Are you guys interested in being an X organization that scales and
 > meets both the driver need and the API/innovation need?  If you are, I
 > would love to work with XFree86.
 > 

I would love to cooperate with an organization which builds a
GUI base platform on top of X.
This call for a 'new governance' calls for a 'centralized' form
of government, I'd much more opt for a 'confederate' structure
where each project chooses those structures it considers to
suit its needs best but which allows for close cooperation.

Egbert.