RE: Re: Permethrin application
Jim Marco <[email protected]> Sun, 14 Jul 2013 15:50:04 +0000
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--IKSI3ClDf2KKUeY3gcTGll2Q5V8ubaFwlKWfCKn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, Yeah, there is no hard data. So much depends on the concentration used, th= e type of clothing, etc. Wool/nylon/cotton is OK with take up. Again, it bonds with clothing. There= is a minimum concentration that will work, and, it can vary a bit dependin= g on how tight it bonds, but generally the Sawyers .5% concentration is eno= ugh to spray on. As it dries it will bond without having much excess. So, n= o washing is needed. Note that several sprayings could leave increasing amo= unts of excess that will wash out, onto your skin and into the environment.= There is a note in the MSDS data sheet about *not* reapplying Permethrin t= o cloths that has already been treated without laundering.=20 Heavier concentrations can be achieved by soaking/dipping. This will be sl= ightly more effective, but the big deal is the longevity. It will last much= longer since it will hold an effective concentration longer. I just came b= ack from a trip that rained every day for 13 days. At the end of that time,= the Permethrin was NOT as effective as what it normally was. Getting raine= d on, sweating and hiking all day is about equivalent to a washing. Bugs we= re very bad in the ADK's due to the rains this year. Swarms of mosquitoes, = big and small, were effectively blocked for the first 7-8 days, but lost th= e repelling after that...the best I could hope for was revenge after gettin= g bit. (I sprayed every morning with DEET, but, it was washed off in the fi= rst couple hours, rain and sweat.)=20 I suspect an effective killing concentration is dependent on the bug type,= too. I don't think ticks, sand fleas and no-seeums will be equally suscept= ible.=20 My thoughts only . . . jdm=20=20=20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:BackpackingLight@yahoogroups= .com] On Behalf Of JamesB Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 11:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: Permethrin application There hasn't been much of any consensus on the techniques used to apply Per= methrin for the last several years. Spray, dunk (AKA dip), and individual l= ot soaking were and still are the favorite individualized approaches. No on= e has any actual data, except personal satisfaction, to break the disparity= -- if indeed there are much differences in the actual outcomes. I've always liked the soaking of a more or less measured amount of solution= (water plus chemical) and clothing in a bag. Sounds more like a controlled= process than home dipping or spraying. Figure out what goes with what you feel comfortable doing and then just do = it. Doing almost anything carefully is usually better than not doing anythi= ng at all. Jim --- In [email protected], Allen Quirk <allenq3@...> wrote: > >=20 > A couple of months ago there was a discussion regarding the safety > and application procedures of Permethrin. People talked about > dipping (which I can't find instructions for) vs spraying, the need > - or not- of rinsing when the application was done. I just got some > Sawyer spray Permethrin and want to use it responsibly, but I was > unable to determine from the discussion thread whether there's a > consensus regarding applying it other than just following Sawyer's > instructions (which I believe are spray, dry, wear). ------------------------------------ =20 +-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D+ BackpackingLight Mailing List To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: BackpackingLight-unsubscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org Post messages by E-mailing them to: [email protected] +-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D+Yahoo! Groups Links --IKSI3ClDf2KKUeY3gcTGll2Q5V8ubaFwlKWfCKn Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style="background-color: #fff;"> <span style="display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text" > <p>Jim,<br> Yeah, there is no hard data. So much depends on the concentration used, the type of clothing, etc.<br> Wool/nylon/cotton is OK with take up. Again, it bonds with clothing. There is a minimum concentration that will work, and, it can vary a bit depending on how tight it bonds, but generally the Sawyers .5% concentration is enough to spray on. As it dries it will bond without having much excess. So, no washing is needed. Note that several sprayings could leave increasing amounts of excess that will wash out, onto your skin and into the environment. There is a note in the MSDS data sheet about *not* reapplying Permethrin to cloths that has already been treated without laundering. <br> Heavier concentrations can be achieved by soaking/dipping. This will be slightly more effective, but the big deal is the longevity. It will last much longer since it will hold an effective concentration longer. I just came back from a trip that rained every day for 13 days. At the end of that time, the Permethrin was NOT as effective as what it normally was. Getting rained on, sweating and hiking all day is about equivalent to a washing. Bugs were very bad in the ADK's due to the rains this year. Swarms of mosquitoes, big and small, were effectively blocked for the first 7-8 days, but lost the repelling after that...the best I could hope for was revenge after getting bit. (I sprayed every morning with DEET, but, it was washed off in the first couple hours, rain and sweat.) <br> I suspect an effective killing concentration is dependent on the bug type, too. I don't think ticks, sand fleas and no-seeums will be equally susceptible. <br> My thoughts only . . .<br> jdm <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: <a href="mailto:BackpackingLight%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:BackpackingLight%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a>] On Behalf Of JamesB<br> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 11:11 PM<br> To: <a href="mailto:BackpackingLight%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a><br> Subject: [BackpackingLight] Re: Permethrin application<br> <br> There hasn't been much of any consensus on the techniques used to apply Permethrin for the last several years. Spray, dunk (AKA dip), and individual lot soaking were and still are the favorite individualized approaches. No one has any actual data, except personal satisfaction, to break the disparity -- if indeed there are much differences in the actual outcomes.<br> <br> I've always liked the soaking of a more or less measured amount of solution (water plus chemical) and clothing in a bag. Sounds more like a controlled process than home dipping or spraying.<br> <br> Figure out what goes with what you feel comfortable doing and then just do it. Doing almost anything carefully is usually better than not doing anything at all.<br> <br> Jim<br> <br> --- In <a href="mailto:BackpackingLight%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a>, Allen Quirk <allenq3@...> wrote:<br> ><br> > <br> > A couple of months ago there was a discussion regarding the safety<br> > and application procedures of Permethrin. People talked about<br> > dipping (which I can't find instructions for) vs spraying, the need<br> > - or not- of rinsing when the application was done. I just got some<br> > Sawyer spray Permethrin and want to use it responsibly, but I was<br> > unable to determine from the discussion thread whether there's a<br> > consensus regarding applying it other than just following Sawyer's<br> > instructions (which I believe are spray, dry, wear).<br> <br> ------------------------------------<br> <br> +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+<br> BackpackingLight Mailing List<br> To unsubscribe, send a blank message to:<br> <a href="mailto:BackpackingLight-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com">BackpackingLight-unsubscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org</a><br> <br> Post messages by E-mailing them to:<br> <a href="mailto:BackpackingLight%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a><br> +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+Yahoo! 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