Re: [Ebbc-Talk] Lessons for BART bike access from Caltrain and SFBC (WAS: Fwd: my presentation from BBATF meeting)

But BART, in general, is not at capacity. BART is only at capacity on
certain trains at certain hours, and only as currently configured.
There are ways to mitigate the commute hour rush such as off-peak
pricing, or by having multiple seat-free of seat-lite cars on every
train. If people with bikes are being forced to stand for their entire
trips then surely other passengers with less to carry can manage it as
well. Most BART trips are only a couple stops, and there is always the
chance of having standing room only on any train so commuters are
already prepared for that and willing to accept it.

As for the car parking space argument, that land could be put to use
in other ways besides storage you know, which could be a potential
financial benefit to BART as opposed to a sink hole. If the price of
parking was raised to market rate and some of those drivers converted
to other modes, the space could be used for something more
constructive than just another potential parker.

Again, what I want is for BART to frame full bike access as a desired
and eventually necessary goal, so that the conversation is about what
steps we make to achieve that instead of rehashing the already defined
constraints.

-Robert Prinz

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Mike Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robert Prinz
>
> One of the main points in Shirley Johnson's presentation was the inequity in
> regard to those that drive and those that bike. However, Caltrain has
> surplus capacity and her presentation showed that while investing in
> on-train bike facilities and increasing bikers they also had an increase in
> other passengers too. BART is at capacity, so increasing  bikes will
> displace others. Some of those displaced would be motorists paying
> a paltry $1 for parking, but if parking was at market rates it would
> probably increase ridership! Many, who drive to BART now, would choose a
> different BART access mode, freeing parking spaces for those willing to pay.
> This does not make an argument for removing the blackout.
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Robert Prinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Is BART going to start charging their customers by volume then? I'm a
>> small guy and there are plenty of riders that alone take up about as
>> much space as me + my bike! How about riders plus strollers, riders
>> plus luggage, riders who smell bad and get a wide berth from everyone
>> else. A person with a bike may be taking up more space ON the train,
>> but the person who parked their car at the station is using way more
>> space and using it all day long.
>>
>> If BART approached full bike access as a problem which REQUIRED a
>> solution they would be able to take the necessary steps to figure it
>> out despite the cost and effort, just like other agencies in SF and
>> other cities do for their own crazy transit projects (surely it
>> couldn't be any more difficult, costly, and politically unpopular than
>> the Central Subway!). Instead these conversations seem to focus on
>> defining the problems, of which we are all well versed by this point.
>> I admit that most of them are legitimate issues, but not ones that are
>> impossible to overcome. The reconfigured seating plans, wider aisles,
>> and three door boarding are steps in the direction of improved bike
>> access, for instance, but these solutions don't go far enough.
>>
>> I will not concede that a blackout period for bikes on BART is
>> necessary, and those that do are simply not willing to explore
>> creative and difficult solutions. If they refuse to address this
>> issue, however, then they really need to step up their game regarding
>> secure bike parking, even well beyond even the current proposals for
>> additional bike stations. At stations like Macarthur BART on sunny
>> days already every single locker, indoor and outdoor bike rack space
>> is occupied by 9am. Who knows how many potential riders and how much
>> revenue they losing daily because of this?
>>
>> -Robert Prinz
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Mike Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Jon et all,
>> >
>> > The constraint is boardings at the downtown San Francisco station, hence
>> > BART's desire to have 3-door cars. In the peaks the fleet is currently
>> > fully
>> > utilized, and they simply don't have enough cars to have all trains
>> > 10-car
>> > (but they should plan for this- 8-car vs. 10-car 20% increase in
>> > capacity).
>> > This is no excuse for their sometimes ridiculously short trains off-peak
>> > and
>> > weekends! At our BBATF meeting it was conceded, even by Shirley Johnson
>> > (excellent presentation and argument), that there would probably always
>> > need
>> > to be some blackout period for bikes (10-car trains is the limit). It
>> > was
>> > also accepted that 1 bike probably takes up 2 passenger spaces,
>> > excluding
>> > the rider! You just can't squeeze bikes in like people.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: [email protected]
>> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jon Spangler
>> > Sent: 10 April 2012 23:49
>> > To: Nick Pilch
>> > Cc: [email protected]
>> > Subject: Re: [Ebbc-Talk] Lessons for BART bike access from Caltrain and
>> > SFBC
>> > (WAS: Fwd: my presentation from BBATF meeting)
>> >
>> > Nick,
>> >
>> > You are correct that bottlenecks are a limiting factor--and there are a
>> > few
>> > throughout the system, thanks to cost-cutting and other short-term
>> > thinking
>> > 40-plus years ago.
>> >
>> > The biggest one seems to still be the single, two-track Transbay Tube.
>> >
>> > Replacing BART's antique electronic train control system and adding the
>> > new
>> > rail cars will both lead to shorter headways and permit shorter spacing
>> > between rush-hour trains. (I have also ridden trains eastbound at 10 PM
>> > that
>> > were only 4 cars long and were SRO-jammed.)
>> >
>> > Bikes on BART system-wide in all directions will increase ridership but
>> > BART
>> > needs to increase both its rush hour and its overall capacities, which
>> > will
>> > take lots of cash. AndBART, like all transit systems, is severely
>> > underfunded....
>> >
>> > Many of us on the BBATF still believe that the best short-term solution
>> > is
>> > to start ending the blackout periods now, with the expectation that
>> > ridership system-wide will increase and the rush-hour crunch will
>> > eventually
>> > be resolved--or at least improved--with our new cars, redesigning and
>> > refurbishing the old ones, and updating as many BART stations and
>> > systems as
>> > rapidly as possible.
>> >
>> > BART needs to hear from more cyclists who ride BART than it has heard
>> > from
>> > recently: EBBC and SFBC need to attend and speak up regularly at BART
>> > board
>> > meetings, and those of us who ride BART need to keep letting BART know
>> > that
>> > we:
>> >
>> > a) like what BART has been doing to add more bike stations, more
>> > inside-fare-gates bike parking, more bike lockers, etc., and
>> >
>> > b) still want and need an end to the blackout periods, more and better
>> > bike-friendly accommodations both at BART stations and on BART trains,
>> > bikes
>> > on escalators, and more....
>> >
>> > Those of us on the BART Bicycle Advisory Task Force can't do this on our
>> > own: we need backup from riders like you.
>> >
>> > Appreciatively yours,
>> >
>> > Jon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Apr 10, 2012, at 11:06 PM, Nick Pilch wrote:
>> >
>> >> How about removing some of the seats so that bikes and the people that
>> >> are
>> > driving them can be in the same car?
>> >>
>> >> I wish I knew more about BART capacity. It seems like BART is at
>> >> capacity
>> > during commute hours now. As someone who leaves Embarcadero in the
>> > afternoon/evening heading towards the East Bay, I have to really game it
>> > to
>> > try to get a seat. Most trains have many people standing and some trains
>> > are
>> > packed to the gills. I don't understand why all commute hour trains
>> > through
>> > SF are not 10 car. Lack of stock? Also, since SF is a bottleneck, and
>> > there
>> > are only two tracks, this limits growth, I've heard.
>> >>
>> >> At 3:03 PM -0700 4/9/12, Scott Mace wrote:
>> >>> These are rehashes of arguments from 10 years ago and before. I remain
>> > unconvinced that BART should remove all the seats from one car,
>> > Copenhagen-style. But if the political will is there, seats could be
>> > removed
>> > and the blackout could end. Then, that bike capacity will be maxed out
>> > too,
>> > and the number of Bay Area commuters impacted by bike bumpings will
>> > skyrocket from its current levels.
>> >>>
>> >>> Scott Mace
>> >>>
>> >>> At 12:32 PM 4/9/2012, Jon Spangler wrote:
>> >>>> Cyclists,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Shirley Johnson, Ph.D, presented the results of the SFBC's "Bikes on
>> >>>> Board" campaign to increase Caltrain's bike capacity and ridership
>> >>>> to the BART Bicycle Advisory Task Force meeting last Monday, April
>> >>>> 2, (Two BART board members and BART General Manager, Grace Crunican,
>> >>>> were also in attendance.)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> SFBC's experience with Caltrain indicates that BART could gain
>> >>>> significant ridership by ending its blackout periods and adding
>> >>>> additional bike capacity to BART's trains. Please take a look at it
>> >>>> and
>> > let the BBATF and BART Board know your views on this:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> ttps://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7qJ2svk6gEGRkthRWdkbFRUVml1cXZkS2J
>> >>>>> LTWp2dw
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Is it time to end the bike blackout?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jon Spangler
>> >>>> BBATF member representing Alameda County
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Begin forwarded message:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> From: Shirley Johnson <dr_shirley_johnson-/[email protected]>
>> >>>>> Date: April 3, 2012 3:43:41 PM PDT
>> >>>>> To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
>> >>>>> [email protected], [email protected]
>> >>>>> Cc: Andy Thornley <[email protected]>
>> >>>>> Subject: my presentation from BBATF meeting
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hello All,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Here is a link to my presentation from last night's meeting. I added
>> > some notes along with the slides.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7qJ2svk6gEGRkthRWdkbFRUVml1cXZkS2
>> >>>>> JLTWp2dw
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thank you very much for affording me the time to speak to you. I was
>> > very impressed with the level of engagement of BART staff and board
>> > members,
>> > and I'm thrilled that BART is pursuing bike racks onboard trains. One
>> > concern I have is that three racks per car may be insufficient. I'd
>> > encourage you to review the notes I added to the last slide regarding
>> > number
>> > of bike racks needed per car.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I sent the presentation link to Grace Crunican in a separate email
>> > already. Please forward to others. I don't have everyone's email
>> > address.
>> > Thanks!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> With kind regards,
>> >>>>> Shirley
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jon Spangler
>> >>>> Writer/editor
>> >>>> Linda Hudson Writing
>> >>>> TEL  510-864-2144
>> >>>> CEL 510-846-5356
>> >>>> [email protected]
>> >>>> www.linkedin.com/in/jonmspangler
>> >>>> www.twitter.com/jonmspangler
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the
>> > mastery of life."
>> >>>>  -Frances E. Willard, in A Wheel Within a Wheel: How I Learned to
>> >>>> Ride the Bicycle (1895)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>> [email protected]
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>> >>>
>> >>> -----
>> >>>
>> >>> Blog: http://urbification.blogspot.com/
>> >>> Subscribe: http://urbification.blogspot.com/atom.xml
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Nick Pilch / [email protected]
>> >> Yahoo IM: npilch
>> >> GTalk: npilch
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jon Spangler
>> > Writer/editor
>> > Linda Hudson Writing
>> > TEL  510-864-2144
>> > CEL 510-846-5356
>> > [email protected]
>> > www.linkedin.com/in/jonmspangler
>> > www.twitter.com/jonmspangler
>> >
>> >
>> > "She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the
>> > mastery of life."
>> >  -Frances E. Willard, in A Wheel Within a Wheel: How I Learned to Ride
>> > the
>> > Bicycle (1895)
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ebbc-Talk mailing list
>> > [email protected]
>> > http://lists.ebbc.org/listinfo.cgi/ebbc-talk-ebbc.org
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
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