Re: [Ebbc-Talk] Bicyclists Running Red Lights

Flame Wars - one of the great appeals of the EEBC talklist


On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Jon Spangler <[email protected]> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Mike and all,
>
> We all see motorists making rolling non-stops at stop signs, texting,
> talking on cell phones, and pushing the limit on
> running red lights all the time. And all those behaviors endanger
> cyclists, making them fair game for this list.
>
> Richard's and Jym's points are that cyclists are not really any more prone
> to misbehavior on the road than auto drivers,
> which is a valid counterpoint to your original post in a normal
> dialogue.(It is also true.)
>
> Raising the original issue in the way you did makes me wonder what your
> purpose was: did you intend to educate
> cyclists or change their behavior? If you did, your language would seem to
> be ineffective and perhaps inflammatory.
>
> Why did you write what you did? Was it to help cyclists make progress or
> were you interested in starting another flame war?
>
> Jon
>
>
> On May 19, 2012, at 9:29 AM, Mike Vandeman wrote:
>
> > At 10:33 PM 5/18/2012, you wrote:
> >> On my ride today I saw at least four cars doing rolling stops through
> stops and lights. Maybe we learned it from them?
> >
> > Not really. Running red lights is extremely rare among motorists.
> >
> >>  And don't even get me started with cell phones.
> >
> > How does that excuse bicyclists running red lights? I've seen bicyclists
> on cell phones, too, but it doesn't bear on red-light running.
> >
> >> r
> >>
> >> On 5/18/12 9:41 PM, Mike Vandeman wrote:
> >>> Why is there no discussion of this issue? Every time I go out, I see
> several bicyclists run red lights. You want respect from motorists, but
> this kind of behavior can only have the opposite effect. Monkey see, monkey
> do. Pretty soon, motorists will start doing the same, following your
> example.
> >>>
> >>> I guess many bicyclists think they are above the law. The "entitlement
> mentality". Practicing civil disobedience? That's not how it's done. You
> have to notify the police first, so they will be ready to arrest you.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ebbc-Talk mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://lists.ebbc.org/listinfo.cgi/ebbc-talk-ebbc.org
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans
> ("pure habitat").
> > Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and
> road construction.)
> >
> > Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
> fond of!
> >
> > http://mjvande.nfshost.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ebbc-Talk mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://lists.ebbc.org/listinfo.cgi/ebbc-talk-ebbc.org
>
>
>
> Jon Spangler
> Writer/editor
> Linda Hudson Writing
> TEL  510-864-2144
> CEL 510-846-5356
> [email protected]
> www.linkedin.com/in/jonmspangler
> www.twitter.com/jonmspangler
>
>
> "She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the
> mastery of life."
>  —Frances E. Willard, in A Wheel Within a Wheel: How I Learned to Ride the
> Bicycle (1895)
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



-- 
*Richard*
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