Re: [Ebbc-Talk] Bicyclists Running Red Lights

At 10:24 AM 5/19/2012, you wrote:
>"Not really. Running red lights is extremely rare among motorists."
>
>I see car drivers run red lights constantly, every single day. 
>Usually in the form of racing through an intersection at high speed 
>well after the yellow has gone red, or rolling through a right turn 
>on red while looking to the left for oncoming car traffic but never 
>to the right for pedestrians. And yes, about once a week I see a car 
>go straight through a solid red or stop sign without braking, 
>usually involving a driver with a cell phone to their ear. Just 
>because this has become normalized behavior doesn't mean it is safe.
>
>That is is not to say that red light running cyclists are excused, 
>but it seems to me that most of them are doing it intentionally 
>while looking for and yielding to cross traffic, while most of the 
>red light running motorists are either distracted/not paying 
>attention or are being antagonistic/aggressive. Of the many times I 
>have been cut off by cyclists I have certainly been annoyed, but 
>never felt that my life was in danger. However, after being 
>similarly cut off by motorists just as many times I can only thank 
>my luck and persistent vigilance for keeping me from serious injury.
>
>I spend a lot of time educating cyclists on their rights and 
>responsibilities in the safety classes I teach for the EBBC and have 
>a vested, personal interest in helping people stay safe and 
>maintaining civility on the roadways while still having fun. That 
>being said, the little word that is so often overlooked is 
>"context". Most police officers understand this, which is why they 
>usually ticket cyclists for flagrantly dangerous infractions but 
>often look the other way when they see cyclists make stupid but 
>inconsequential decisions. Our organization is trying to capitalize 
>on this and is working to set up a "traffic school for cyclists" 
>program in Alameda County (we already have one on the UC Berkeley 
>campus) where ticketed cyclists can attend a bike safety class to 
>have their fine reduced/removed. This allows us to target the folks 
>most in need of the education who otherwise would not elect to 
>attend a safety class, and it allows the police to ticket cyclists 
>without feeling that they are putting an undue burden on them via 
>the very steep fines (usually the same a car driver would receive, 
>despite a bike's slower speed and greatly reduced mass).

Great!

>At the same time, education and enforcement only goes part of the 
>way, as better infrastructure and roads designed with cyclists' 
>needs in mind promotes better compliance as well. What many 
>non-cyclists don't appreciate is that people on bikes encounter many 
>more red lights and stop signs than do people in cars, as arterial 
>streets often have signals timed at car speeds,

There is no scientific justification for that, but pro-auto planners 
like Elizabeth Deakin claim that it's justified.

>  and the side roads that bikeways are usually routed through have 
> many more stop signs than signals, many more turns, and when there 
> is a signal the arterials always get preference in terms of green 
> time and wait time. I guarantee you if we subjected car arterials 
> to as many turns, stop signs and red light waits as we do bike 
> routes there would be plenty more car drivers ignoring stops as well.

Bicyclists and pedestrians and public transit should be able to push 
a button (or roll over a loop) and get the light to immediately start 
cycling to green, giving them priority. But that would require the 
community to start valuing the environment and their own health. As 
it is, they seem to prefer speed (time-saving). Personally, I prefer 
crossing where thee is no light, so I can hop off, become a 
pedestrian, and get priority.

>Better infrastructure also encourages a more diverse bicycle 
>ridership to take to the streets, meaning more older cyclists, more 
>families, more women, etc. This has a calming effect on the 
>traditionally young, male demographic, encouraging less aggressive 
>behavior and more compliance with the law. And speaking of the law, 
>it is possible that we could legalize some types of common but 
>disallowed behavior by enacting a "stop-as-yield" law (I know, it's 
>controversial) which allows cyclists to roll through an stop sign 
>after slowing and yielding to any cross traffic with the right of 
>way. In some ways this would be safer than the status quo where some 
>cyclists stop at every sign while others roll through. A big part of 
>road safety is about predictability, so if the law was changed and 
>cyclist behavior was more consistent there would be a net safety 
>gain, and the stats from Idaho where this has been the law since the 
>80's bears this out.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

>On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Mike Vandeman 
><<mailto:mjvande-yBeKhBN/[email protected]>mjvande-yBeKhBN/[email protected]> wrote:
>At 10:33 PM 5/18/2012, you wrote:
>On my ride today I saw at least four cars doing rolling stops 
>through stops and lights. Maybe we learned it from them?
>
>
>Not really. Running red lights is extremely rare among motorists.
>
>  And don't even get me started with cell phones.
>
>
>How does that excuse bicyclists running red lights? I've seen 
>bicyclists on cell phones, too, but it doesn't bear on red-light running.
>
>r
>
>On 5/18/12 9:41 PM, Mike Vandeman wrote:
>Why is there no discussion of this issue? Every time I go out, I see 
>several bicyclists run red lights. You want respect from motorists, 
>but this kind of behavior can only have the opposite effect. Monkey 
>see, monkey do. Pretty soon, motorists will start doing the same, 
>following your example.
>
>I guess many bicyclists think they are above the law. The 
>"entitlement mentality". Practicing civil disobedience? That's not 
>how it's done. You have to notify the police first, so they will be 
>ready to arrest you.
>
>
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>--
>
>I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to 
>humans ("pure habitat").
>Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence 
>and road construction.)
>
>Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you 
>are fond of!
>
><http://mjvande.nfshost.com>http://mjvande.nfshost.com
>
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-- 

I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to 
humans ("pure habitat").
Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence 
and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you 
are fond of!

http://mjvande.nfshost.com
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