Re: My visit to Campione d'Italia

thanx very much mats
all wonderfully clarifying

tho for some reason i cant access the de bruin pdf
caption texts
nevertheless what i can see there plus all the various
other data taken together do seem to pretty well
confirm that 
b o t h 
the arogno bissone campione tripoint aka arbica 
a n d 
the arogno campione castagnola become lugano tripoint
aka arcalu 
are situated at the unmarked intersections of brook
bottoms with straight line segments defined by pairs
of chit rocks
the former by rocks number 13b & 14 hyperextended 7
meters south of no 14 to named position v1
as you have observed
& the latter by & between rocks number 1 & 2 
roughly 15 meters south of no 1 or a quarter of the
way from it to no 2
thanx in this case to tullio aebischers data 

we do not yet appear to have seen a positively
identifiable pic of either tripoint position tho

it is possible that the very first de bruin pdf pic
shows the arcalu brook somewhere in the right general
vicinity for the tripoint to be in frame
but still doubtful because no accompanying chit rock
is visible there

it is far more likely that vito la collas 2 wonderful
views include arbica even if it is hiding directly
underneath the foot bridge or in the creek bed some
very short distance below the foot bridge

& let me say despite your modest disavowal of the post
14 alignment
several of these pix leave little doubt that this post
at least 
does stand centered directly upon or very close to the
chit alignment
even if none of the other posts do likewise
so i am seeing & counting it as being in the same line
as 13b & 14
for purposes of visually placing the tripoint position
in the photos
i think correctly 
even if not yet to my complete satisfaction 
since i cant measure off the 7 meters from here

but do you or craig or dieter or any of our other eye
witnesses have an opinion of exactly what point on
these pix the 7 meters measured off in the correct
direction would bring us to 

--- Ernst Stavro Blofeld <blofeld_es-/[email protected]> wrote:

> I have edited the text, and made insertions below:
> 
> > I would think the latter, if that is actually the
> > dry brook bottom, 
> > which is hard to determine.  As you know,
> > photographic perspective can 
> > be deceptive on a steeep slope.  It seems
> consistent
> > that the buried 
> > Swiss pipe ends before striking Italy.  What is
> that
> > just below the end 
> > of the pipe and the piece of log holding it?  Is
> it
> > the edge of a plank 
> > or international footbridge across the brook--a
> part
> > of the trail shown 
> > on the map?
> 
> Yes, I agree. The tripoint is most likely at
> the brook bottom. Yes, the plank is part of an
> international footbridge.
> 
> Below is the italian text from
>
http://www.globalgeografia.com/italia/campione_italia_tab1.htm
> 
> #14:
> Targa sulla retta 14-V1 (?). Per la linea di confine
> fa fede il cippo. Il confine prosegue in linea retta
> lungo la direzione 13B-14 fino all'asse della Valle
> della Punta
> 
> #V1:
> Non demarcato e senza numero progressivo. Il confine
> prosegue piegando in linea retta verso occidente per
> raggiungere il punto d'incontro degli assi dei due
> valloncelli a monte della Valle della Punta. Da
> questo
> punto il confine segue l'asse della valle sino al
> 14A.
> 
> 
> I believe the text above says that the border
> continues along the line 13B-14 until it hits the
> brook, which intersection defines the unmarked point
> V1. 
> 
> Please also note that there are several points and
> markers along the brook between 14 and the 15s.
> 
> 
> > Certainly rock 14 would be on it, and it seems
> that
> > the red sign would 
> > be too.
> 
> The red sign may or may not be placed on the border.
> It is my experience that the red signposts were
> placed
> in the general neighbourhood of the stones, close to
> but not necessarily on the very border.
> 
> See for example
> http://campione.enclaves.org/image/124-2468_img.jpg
> where the red signpost is clearly within CH.
> 
>  
> > > & so the smaller stone may thus mark the arbi
> > brook
> > > bottom diagonally or even indirectly
> > > rather than orthogonally & directly
> > > inasmuch as there do appear to be 1 or 2 other
> as
> > yet
> > > unexplained stone markers in this pic too
> > 
> > I agree.  The "B" rock does not seem to be in the
> > brook bottom.  Also, 
> > the "B" does not face the right direction for it
> to
> > be a bilateral 
> > boundary monument.  If it is a unilateral Bissone
> > marker, then the 
> > squarish rock directly above rock 14 and to the
> left
> > of the red post 
> > could be the corresponding Arogno marker.
> 
> Yes, this is not unlikey. See
>
http://www.globalgeografia.com/italia/img/campione_fig05b.jpg
> The square stone may be the one marked 574.2, which,
> incidentally, could not be the elevation, at least
> not
> in meters, since it is quoted at 548 meters in
>
http://www.globalgeografia.com/italia/campione_italia_tab1.htm
> 
> 
> [..cut..]
> 
> > >>
> > >> We thought that rock 14 was the southeast
> corner
> > of
> > >> Campione, but the
> > >> treaty says different.  This explains the
> curious
> > >> markings on its top.
> > >> The dimple is on the long leg of the L, not at
> > its
> > >> corner.  This
> > >> indicates that the boundary runs on a ways
> before
> > >> making the turn, just
> > >> as the treaty says.  
> 
> Yes, it does, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> Don't miss the Campione border walk at
>
http://south-african-diaspora-solutions.com/border-of-campione.html
> 
> Also, I have two pictures of the 14-area from my
> good friend Vito la Colla. Please don't copy
> and/or republish them.
> 
> http://campione.enclaves.org/image/N14A.png
> http://campione.enclaves.org/image/N14B.png
> 
> 
> 
> Yours,
> M



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