Re: Wanted editor feature: synchronized horizontal split
Amit Aronovitch <[email protected]> Sat, 6 Nov 2010 23:37:53 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.culture.hackers.israel |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--0016363102b91eae7f0494693491 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 6:54 PM, Shlomi Fish <shlomif-ik1l9ssToec+JF/[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Amit, > > (Sending again because the previous message was not received by > Yahoogroups. > It lost more than one message of mine this way recently.). > > On Sunday 26 September 2010 13:23:52 Amit Aronovitch wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Shlomi Fish <shlomif-ik1l9ssToec+JF/[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hi Amit, > > > > > > On Saturday 25 September 2010 17:01:39 Amit Aronovitch wrote: > > > > When reading (or editing) long textual documents, especially source > > > > code, you always have to compromise between viewing larger portions > of > > > > the code at once (to get a wider context), and having reasonably > sized > > > > fonts (long documents take long time to read, you wouldn't want to > > > > stress your eyes too much). > > > > Since code typically has a fixed, relatively short, line width, there > > > > is > > > > > > no > > > > > > > point in stretching your window horizontally. Only vertical > stretching > > > > helps, and you are limited by the height of your screen. > > > > The problem became even worse with the increased popularity of > > > > > > wide-screens > > > > > > > (for a given screen area, you now get shorter screens, and either > have > > > > to settle for less lines to display or strain the eyes with smaller > > > > sized fonts). > > > > > > > > I think that the best way to use screen area in modern wide screens > > > > would be to "cut" a "virtual" tall window into two halves and have > > > > them displayed side by side. In other words, have a wide window for > > > > your editor, which is horizontally split in two halves, where lines > > > > from the top of the right pane scroll into the bottom of the left > pane > > > > and vice versa. > > > > In Emacs I can simulate a crude version of this by carefully resizing > > > > and scrolling two views of the same buffer, such that the top line of > > > > the > > > > > > right > > > > > > > view follows the bottom line of the left one > > > > (see screenshot in http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6960989/horizsplit.png), > > > > > > and > > > > > > > then turn on "scroll-all-mode" to force synchronized scrolling. > > > > However: > > > > * It is a bit tricky to set up. > > > > * You loose synchronization if you try to scroll beyond the top or > > > > bottom of your file. > > > > * I would like to have a single scrollbar, cursor and status line, > > > > rather than two (which is confusing). > > > > (well, maybe there is a special emacs mode for what I want, but I do > > > > not know of such). > > > > > > > > Now the question: > > > > Is such a feature available in your favorite editor? Do you know of a > > > > > > good > > > > > > > editor that supports this? > > > > > > It is available in Vim using the ":setlocal scrollbind" feature (tried > it > > > now > > > and it works). Here is the excerpt from the Vim FAQ about it: > > > > > > {{{ > > > 10.8. How do I scroll two or more buffers simultaneously? > > > > > > You can set the "scrollbind" option for each of the buffer to scroll > them > > > simultaneously. > > > > > > For more information, read > > > > > > :help 'scrollbind' > > > :help scroll-binding > > > :help 'scrollopt' > > > > > > }}} > > > > > > And Vim/gvim is my favourite editor. :-) > > > > > > In emacs, if you bind the views, and then scroll up until the left half > > > > reaches the top, then further scroll-ups would only scroll the right half > > and you lose sync. Similar thing happens when the right half reaches the > > bottom. > > Does Vim avoid this problem? > > I think it does. Pressing Page up (for example) in a viewport positioned at > the top of the file will not move the lower viewport either. However, you > can > scroll the lower viewport to the top of the file, but after you scroll it > down > again into the middle, the upper buffer will be synchronised to it. > > OK > Also, what about scrollbars and cursors - do you get a single one (as I > > want) or two of each (as I get in emacs)? > > I think I get two - two scrollbars and two different cursor. > > Pity. Indicates that this feature is a quick hack rather than properly designed. I wonder why nobody else seems to think that 2-page display is useful for editing (Adobe Reader supports 2-page, but that's no editor). > > > Finally, is there an emacs-like keyboard binding for Vim (the reverse of > > emacs' "viper" mode)? > > There's vimacs: > > * http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=300 > > * http://algorithm.com.au/code/vimacs/about/ > > It wasn't updated since 2002 , but may still be good enough. I was > introduced > to it by a fellow student at the Technion who worked for the EE Dept.'s > Computer Networks Lab where I took some projects. He was using Emacs and > then > by inspiration by the fact that I was using Vim, started using Vim as well, > but with Vimacs. > Cool! I'm actually trying this out. (Seems to work, but you have to manually fix the doc (escaping some *'s in quoted code) before helptagging it) BTW: From his site, seems that the main thing that bothered this guy about Emacs was speed. Unfortunately, few people realize that the comparison is quite unfair, as they compare text-mode VI with the full graphical mode of Emacs (he specifically mentions "the time it takes to open the window"). I normally have "e" aliased to "emacs -nw" - this opens text-mode emacs, which is rather fast (not as fast as VI, but on modern machines, the differences are in measured in tiny fractions of a second, so should not bother the average user). (Better yet, use "emacs -q -nw", to avoid loading fancy customizations that people/sites have in their .emacs, some of which do not work in text-mode anyways). > > Also, the author of Vimacs has put some music that he composed or mixed > online: > > http://algorithm.com.au/music/ > > I downloaded two of his albums and they are not too bad. > > Thanks, AA --0016363102b91eae7f0494693491 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 6,= 2010 at 6:54 PM, Shlomi Fish <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:shlom= if-ik1l9ssToec+JF/[email protected]">shlomif-ik1l9ssToec+JF/[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl= ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);"> Hi Amit,<br> <br> (Sending again because the previous message was not received by Yahoogroups= .<br> It lost more than one message of mine this way recently.).<br> <br> On Sunday 26 September 2010 13:23:52 Amit Aronovitch wrote:<br> > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Shlomi Fish <<a href=3D"mailto:sh= lomif-ik1l9ssToec+JF/[email protected]">shlomif-ik1l9ssToec+JF/[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > > Hi Amit,<br> > ><br> > > On Saturday 25 September 2010 17:01:39 Amit Aronovitch wrote:<br> > > > When reading (or editing) long textual documents, especially= source<br> > > > code, you always have to compromise between viewing larger p= ortions of<br> > > > the code at once (to get a wider context), and having reason= ably sized<br> > > > fonts (long documents take long time to read, you wouldn'= ;t want to<br> > > > stress your eyes too much).<br> > > > Since code typically has a fixed, relatively short, line wid= th, there<br> > > > is<br> > ><br> > > no<br> > ><br> > > > point in stretching your window horizontally. Only vertical = stretching<br> > > > helps, and you are limited by the height of your screen.<br> > > > The problem became even worse with the increased popularity = of<br> > ><br> > > wide-screens<br> > ><br> > > > (for a given screen area, you now get shorter screens, and e= ither have<br> > > > to settle for less lines to display or strain the eyes with = smaller<br> > > > sized fonts).<br> > > ><br> > > > I think that the best way to use screen area in modern wide = screens<br> > > > would be to "cut" a "virtual" tall windo= w into two halves and have<br> > > > them displayed side by side. In other words, have a wide win= dow for<br> > > > your editor, which is horizontally split in two halves, wher= e lines<br> > > > from the top of the right pane scroll into the bottom of the= left pane<br> > > > and vice versa.<br> > > > In Emacs I can simulate a crude version of this by carefully= resizing<br> > > > and scrolling two views of the same buffer, such that the to= p line of<br> > > > the<br> > ><br> > > right<br> > ><br> > > > view follows the bottom line of the left one<br> > > > (see screenshot in =A0<a href=3D"http://dl.dropbox.com/u/696= 0989/horizsplit.png" target=3D"_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6960989/hori= zsplit.png</a> ),<br> > ><br> > > and<br> > ><br> > > > then turn on "scroll-all-mode" to force synchroniz= ed scrolling.<br> > > > However:<br> > > > * It is a bit tricky to set up.<br> > > > * You loose synchronization if you try to scroll beyond the = top or<br> > > > bottom of your file.<br> > > > * I would like to have a single scrollbar, cursor and status= line,<br> > > > rather than two (which is confusing).<br> > > > (well, maybe there is a special emacs mode for what I want, = but I do<br> > > > not know of such).<br> > > ><br> > > > Now the question:<br> > > > Is such a feature available in your favorite editor? Do you = know of a<br> > ><br> > > good<br> > ><br> > > > editor that supports this?<br> > ><br> > > It is available in Vim using the ":setlocal scrollbind"= feature (tried it<br> > > now<br> > > and it works). Here is the excerpt from the Vim FAQ about it:<br> > ><br> > > {{{<br> > > 10.8. How do I scroll two or more buffers simultaneously?<br> > ><br> > > You can set the "scrollbind" option for each of the buf= fer to scroll them<br> > > simultaneously.<br> > ><br> > > For more information, read<br> > ><br> > > =A0 =A0:help 'scrollbind'<br> > > =A0 =A0:help scroll-binding<br> > > =A0 =A0:help 'scrollopt'<br> > ><br> > > }}}<br> > ><br> > > And Vim/gvim is my favourite editor. :-)<br> > ><br> > > In emacs, if you bind the views, and then scroll up until the lef= t half<br> ><br> > reaches the top, then further scroll-ups would only scroll the right h= alf<br> > and you lose sync. Similar thing happens when the right half reaches t= he<br> > bottom.<br> > Does Vim avoid this problem?<br> <br> I think it does. Pressing Page up (for example) in a viewport positioned at= <br> the top of the file will not move the lower viewport either. However, you c= an<br> scroll the lower viewport to the top of the file, but after you scroll it d= own<br> again into the middle, the upper buffer will be synchronised to it.<br> <br></blockquote><div><br>OK<br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"= style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);"> > Also, what about scrollbars and cursors - do you get a single one (as = I<br> > want) or two of each (as I get in emacs)?<br> <br> I think I get two - two scrollbars and two different cursor.<br> <br></blockquote><div><br>Pity. Indicates that this feature is a quick hack= rather than properly designed.<br>=A0I wonder why nobody else seems to thi= nk that 2-page display is useful for editing (Adobe Reader supports 2-page,= but that's no editor).<br> <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid= rgb(204, 204, 204);"> ><br> > Finally, is there an emacs-like keyboard binding for Vim (the reverse = of<br> > emacs' "viper" mode)?<br> <br> There's vimacs:<br> <br> * <a href=3D"http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3D300" target= =3D"_blank">http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3D300</a><br> <br> * <a href=3D"http://algorithm.com.au/code/vimacs/about/" target=3D"_blank">= http://algorithm.com.au/code/vimacs/about/</a><br> <br> It wasn't updated since 2002 , but may still be good enough. I was intr= oduced<br> to it by a fellow student at the Technion who worked for the EE Dept.'s= <br> Computer Networks Lab where I took some projects. He was using Emacs and th= en<br> by inspiration by the fact that I was using Vim, started using Vim as well,= <br> but with Vimacs.<br></blockquote><div><br>Cool! I'm actually trying thi= s out.<br><br>(Seems to work, but you have to manually fix the doc (escapin= g some *'s in quoted code) before helptagging it)<br><br>BTW: <br> From his site, seems that the main thing that bothered this guy about Emacs= was speed.<br>Unfortunately, few people realize that the comparison is qui= te unfair, as they compare text-mode VI with the full graphical mode of Ema= cs (he specifically mentions "the time it takes to open the window&quo= t;).<br> <br>I normally have "e" aliased to "emacs -nw" - this o= pens text-mode emacs, which is rather fast (not as fast as VI, but on moder= n machines, the differences are in measured in tiny fractions of a second, = so should not bother the average user).<br> (Better yet, use "emacs -q -nw", to avoid loading fancy customiza= tions that people/sites have in their .emacs, some of which do not work in = text-mode anyways).<br>=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);"> <br> Also, the author of Vimacs has put some music that he composed or mixed<br> online:<br> <br> <a href=3D"http://algorithm.com.au/music/" target=3D"_blank">http://algorit= hm.com.au/music/</a><br> <br> I downloaded two of his albums and they are not too bad.<br> <br></blockquote><div><br>Thanks,<br>=A0 =A0 =A0=A0 AA<br>=A0<br></div></di= v></div> </p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20 <div id=3D"ygrp-actbar" style=3D"clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; whit= e-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"> <div> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe: [hackers-il] W= anted editor feature: synchronized horizontal split" style=3D"margin-right:= 0; padding-right: 0;"> Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">sender</span></a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe: [hackers= -il] Wanted editor feature: synchronized horizontal split"> Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">group</span></a> | <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackers-il/post;_ylc=3D= X3oDMTJwNGEyODRqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NTczMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA2NzY= 0BG1zZ0lkAzUxMzgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjg5MDc5ODE2?act=3Dreply&m= essageNum=3D5138">Reply <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">via web post</spa= n></a> | <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackers-il/post;_ylc= =3DX3oDMTJlajJndGY4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NTczMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA2= NzY0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTA3OTgxNg--" style=3D"font-weight:= 700;">Start a New Topic</a> </div> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackers-il/message= /5134;_ylc=3DX3oDMTM0OWRzM2wyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NTczMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZA= MxNzA1MDA2NzY0BG1zZ0lkAzUxMzgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjg5MDc5ODE2B= HRwY0lkAzUxMzQ-">Messages in this topic</a> (<span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">4</span>) </div>=20 <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Ver= dana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-tran= sform: uppercase; ">Recent Activity:</span> <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inl= ine;"> </ul> =20=20=20=20 <div style=3D"clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackers-il;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlMTNp= amlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NTczMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA2NzY0BHNlYwN2dGw= Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI4OTA3OTgxNg--" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">Vis= it Your Group</a> </div> </div> <div id=3D"ygrp-mkp" style=3D"border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; clea= r: both; float: left; font-family: Arial; margin: 5px 0 10px 0; padding: 0 = 10px;"> <div id=3D"hd" style=3D"color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: = 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0;">MARKETPLACE</div> <div id=3D"ads" style=3D"margin-bottom: 10px;"> <div class=3D"ad" style=3D"color: #628C2A; font-family: A= rial; font-weight: 700; padding: 0 0;"> <p><a href=3D"http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D15oha5ptj/M=3D49306= 4.13814537.14041040.10835568/D=3Dgroups/S=3D1705006764:MKP1/Y=3DYAHOO/EXP= =3D1289087016/L=3De92b68c8-e9ee-11df-bd1d-034fc247727e/B=3DjA2JD0oGYrg-/J= =3D1289079816795519/K=3DnRUgogrcJspfxqHMITot7Q/A=3D6078812/R=3D0/SIG=3D114a= e4ln1/*http://dogandcatanswers.yahoo.com/">Get great advice about dogs and = cats. 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