Re: Re: Your old articles
"Nadav Har'El" <nyh-TS7m/[email protected]> Sun, 17 Apr 2011 16:42:48 +0300
| Newsgroups | gmane.culture.hackers.israel |
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--t4OHgC2RSGJTY2w-Boplp48stLyCKE2lpEFWAhn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, Apr 17, 2011, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Re: Your old articles": > On Monday 04 Apr 2011 08:37:43 Richard Stallman wrote: > > You already declined to make the two promises that I always request > > for an interview, so I said no. > > Well, will you be able to share what these two promises that you request are, > just for the record? Furthermore, if you are not going to give me an Shlomi, if you want someone to do you a favor (answer your questions), why do you try so hard to alienate him? Why CC your discussion to a public mailing list? No, the line "I hope it's OK, as I don't see why this message should not be made public" doesn't make it any nicer to publish someone else's mail. About his "requests", I have no idea what he's referring to, as I didn't see all your correspondence, but I have a good guess: He's probably annoyed that you use the terms "Linux" instead of "GNU/Linux", and "Open Source" instead of "Free Software". If you don't understand why his requests are justified, let me give you an example: Imagine that some journalist from Al-Jazeerah (for example) comes to interview Netanyahu, and his first question is something about the "Zionist Occupation Army". It doesn't matter that this (jeish alichtilal assayuni) is the term they use for our army - Netanyahu would object to this term, and terminate the interview immediately. If the journalist wants to get an answer out of him, he should try to use more neutral terms which his interviewee would not find offensive - like, perhaps, "Israeli army". Like that hypothetical Al-Jazeerah journalist, you are free to use your favorite terms in other places - just don't use them when contacting people who are offended by the terms you prefer. > 1. I know you believe that non-free, public, software (which Joel Spolsky > calls "shrinkwrap" software here - > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FiveWorlds.html ) that is not free or > even not entirely free, is illegitimate and immoral. However, do you believe > that in an ideal world, such software should be illegal? The word "illegal" in this case could have two meanings. The first (which I doubt RMS would agree with) is that people who try to sell Shrink-Wrapped software should be put in jail. The second - which I'd guess RMS would prefer - is shrink-wrap will not be against the law, but simply unsupported by the law: That the law will give makers of software and hardware less "teeth" to bully clients with - no DMCA, unenforcable "shrink wrap licenses" and so on. > 2. Do you believe that one can prevent commercial use and commercial > redistribution (i.e: mass selling for a profit) of their otherwise publicly > available artwork? (Similar to the -nc variants of the Creative Commons > licences.) Why are you asking RMS this? And are you asking this legally (will the -nc license "stick" in court) or morally (is it a good idea)? > 3. Do you believe that one can completely prevent derivative works of one's > otherwise public artwork? (Similar to the -nd variants of the Creative Commons > licences.). Again, why are you asking RMS about CC licenses? And are you asking legally or philosophically? Clearly, RMS thinks it's *wrong* to prevent derivative works. The GPL and GFDL are all about allowing derivative works. But there's an interesting exception - the GFDL has the option of "invariant sections" - sections which cannot be modified. It seems that RMS finds a slightly lesser value in allowing modifications to text (and perhaps other forms of artistic expression) than he finds in modification of software (which has a functional value, it's not just a piece of art). -- Nadav Har'El | Sunday, Apr 17 2011, 13 Nisan 5771 nyh-TS7m/[email protected] |----------------------------------------- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |The 3 stages of sex: Tri-weekly, try http://nadav.harel.org.il |weekly, try weakly. --t4OHgC2RSGJTY2w-Boplp48stLyCKE2lpEFWAhn Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style="background-color: #fff;"> <span style="display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text" > <p>On Sun, Apr 17, 2011, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Re: Your old articles":<br> > On Monday 04 Apr 2011 08:37:43 Richard Stallman wrote:<br> > > You already declined to make the two promises that I always request<br> > > for an interview, so I said no.<br> > <br> > Well, will you be able to share what these two promises that you request are, <br> > just for the record? Furthermore, if you are not going to give me an <br> <br> Shlomi, if you want someone to do you a favor (answer your questions), why<br> do you try so hard to alienate him? Why CC your discussion to a public mailing<br> list? No, the line "I hope it's OK, as I don't see why this message should not<br> be made public" doesn't make it any nicer to publish someone else's mail.<br> <br> About his "requests", I have no idea what he's referring to, as I didn't<br> see all your correspondence, but I have a good guess: He's probably annoyed<br> that you use the terms "Linux" instead of "GNU/Linux", and "Open Source"<br> instead of "Free Software".<br> <br> If you don't understand why his requests are justified, let me give you an<br> example: Imagine that some journalist from Al-Jazeerah (for example) comes<br> to interview Netanyahu, and his first question is something about the<br> "Zionist Occupation Army". It doesn't matter that this (jeish alichtilal<br> assayuni) is the term they use for our army - Netanyahu would object to this<br> term, and terminate the interview immediately. If the journalist wants to<br> get an answer out of him, he should try to use more neutral terms which his<br> interviewee would not find offensive - like, perhaps, "Israeli army". <br> <br> Like that hypothetical Al-Jazeerah journalist, you are free to use your<br> favorite terms in other places - just don't use them when contacting people<br> who are offended by the terms you prefer.<br> <br> > 1. I know you believe that non-free, public, software (which Joel Spolsky <br> > calls "shrinkwrap" software here - <br> > <a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FiveWorlds.html">http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FiveWorlds.html</a> ) that is not free or <br> > even not entirely free, is illegitimate and immoral. However, do you believe <br> > that in an ideal world, such software should be illegal?<br> <br> The word "illegal" in this case could have two meanings. The first (which<br> I doubt RMS would agree with) is that people who try to sell Shrink-Wrapped<br> software should be put in jail. The second - which I'd guess RMS would<br> prefer - is shrink-wrap will not be against the law, but simply unsupported<br> by the law: That the law will give makers of software and hardware less<br> "teeth" to bully clients with - no DMCA, unenforcable "shrink wrap licenses"<br> and so on.<br> <br> > 2. Do you believe that one can prevent commercial use and commercial <br> > redistribution (i.e: mass selling for a profit) of their otherwise publicly <br> > available artwork? (Similar to the -nc variants of the Creative Commons <br> > licences.)<br> <br> Why are you asking RMS this?<br> And are you asking this legally (will the -nc license "stick" in court) or<br> morally (is it a good idea)?<br> <br> > 3. Do you believe that one can completely prevent derivative works of one's <br> > otherwise public artwork? (Similar to the -nd variants of the Creative Commons <br> > licences.).<br> <br> Again, why are you asking RMS about CC licenses? And are you asking<br> legally or philosophically?<br> <br> Clearly, RMS thinks it's *wrong* to prevent derivative works. The GPL and GFDL<br> are all about allowing derivative works. But there's an interesting exception -<br> the GFDL has the option of "invariant sections" - sections which cannot be<br> modified. It seems that RMS finds a slightly lesser value in allowing<br> modifications to text (and perhaps other forms of artistic expression) than<br> he finds in modification of software (which has a functional value, it's<br> not just a piece of art).<br> <br> -- <br> Nadav Har'El | Sunday, Apr 17 2011, 13 Nisan 5771<br> <a href="mailto:nyh%40math.technion.ac.il">nyh-TS7m/[email protected]</a> |-----------------------------------------<br> Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |The 3 stages of sex: Tri-weekly, try<br> <a href="http://nadav.harel.org.il">http://nadav.harel.org.il</a> |weekly, try weakly.<br> </p> </div> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style="color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> <div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"> <div> <a href="mailto:nyh-TS7m/[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bhackers-il%5D%20Re%3A%20Your%20old%20articles" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"> Reply to <span style="font-weight: 700;">sender</span></a> | <a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bhackers-il%5D%20Re%3A%20Your%20old%20articles"> Reply to <span style="font-weight: 700;">group</span></a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackers-il/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwczM1bHBpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NTczMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA2NzY0BG1zZ0lkAzUxNTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzAzMDQ3Nzcx?act=reply&messageNum=5154">Reply <span style="font-weight: 700;">via web post</span></a> | <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackers-il/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldmkxc2o3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NTczMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA2NzY0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMwMzA0Nzc3MQ--" style="font-weight: 700;">Start a New Topic</a> </div> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackers-il/message/5152;_ylc=X3oDMTM0a240azByBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NTczMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA2NzY0BG1zZ0lkAzUxNTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzAzMDQ3NzcxBHRwY0lkAzUxNTI-">Messages in this topic</a> (<span style="font-weight: 700;">3</span>) </div> <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; ">Recent Activity:</span> <ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;"> </ul> <div style="clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackers-il;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZzkybDkxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NTczMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA2NzY0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMwMzA0Nzc3MQ--" style="text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a> </div> </div> <div id="ft" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5px; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMjhhNWFiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4NTczMzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA2NzY0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzAzMDQ3Nzcx" style="float: left;"><img src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/yg/logo/us.gif" height="15" width="137" alt="Yahoo! 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