Re: Internet analyses (Was Re: IPv8...)
John Gilmore via Internet-history <[email protected]> Tue, 19 May 2026 12:50:42 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.culture.internet.history |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
John Levine via Internet-history <[email protected]> wrote: > Ted Nelson had been faffing about trying to implement his Xanadu > hypertext idea for decades, but never got very far because it was much > too ambitious. Tim built what's pretty much the implementable subset > (i.e., one-way rather than two-way links) and that's the Web. Unlike > its predecessors it worked, he had users that liked it, and here we > are. Contrasting points about Xanadu and WWW: Xanadu was proprietary and thus discouraged people from working on it. Its high level structure was documented (in 2 books), but none of the implementation details. WWW was well documented in specifications, explanations, and in free/libre software. Technically Xanadu was not federated -- it was designed to be centrally run. The plan was to have locally run "franchises" in towns, where you could go to access it. In theory people could run their own servers, but every server, every user, and every document had to have a centrally assigned and validated identity, and a financial account tied to that. This was much more complicated both organizationally and technically. WWW was federated by using the DNS to find each resource, and no central coordination was required beyond the centrally managed DNS system. Xanadu had an economic model that charged readers and funded publishers and authors. But that was never implemented. WWW had no economic model, was free to access and free to publish (plus the costs of installing and learning software, and running servers). I believe this was WWW's biggest failing, since it led to the free-TV advertising-funded business model. This was rapidly followed by centralized search engines that were paid by third party advertisers, technical and social tricks for deep surveillance on readers, and technical and social tricks for coerced attention extraction. Xanadu would probably have had attention coercion too, since publishers were planned to be paid based on how much reading users did. WWW was competently implemented many times. Xanadu was incompletely implemented several times, but the small team kept throwing away the early implementations (rather than releasing them to gain experience and a community) and rewriting it from scratch in niche languages like Smalltalk. Ultimately it failed because it never shipped a working version -- nor any version at all. By 1992 it had burned out its only serious financial backer, and most of its volunteers, and it never recovered thereafter. By 1999, a dedicated volunteer (Roger Gregory) resurrected the last two dead Xanadu code bases and gathered the permission to release them as MIT-licensed software. See: http://udanax.xanadu.com/ By then, nobody cared; WWW had grown exponentially and couldn't be caught by competitors. And the latest half-done code (Udanax Gold) had bit-rotted due to its arcane implementation language, so it's quite hard to even extract, let alone run or modify. The earlier implementation (Udanax Green) is probably buildable and runnable, but does not implement most of the design (such as the economic model). The last updates I found were from 2015: https://xanadu.com.au/mail/xanadu/msg00485.html An interesting bit for me is that the difficulty of implementing "2-way links" seemed to play no part in Xanadu's failure. Presumably, someone could build them as an extension to WWW if the world really valued them. The world of 2026 has much better tools for widely distributed replicated databases: not just commercially rentable server farms and Terabit Ethernets, but distributed hash tables, blockchains, BitTorrent, and conventional transactional databases that can work at scale. When Xanadu was being implemented, there were no scalable networked databases, because there were only a few thousand machines on real networks in the whole world. Airplane reservations, for example, were still handled on a single mainframe running very custom software. John -- Internet-history mailing list [email protected] https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history - Unsubscribe: https://app.smartsheet.com/b/form/9b6ef0621638436ab0a9b23cb0668b0b?The%20list%20to%20be%20unsubscribed%20from=Internet-history