Re: capacity v bandwidth

I think of menehune as a wireless LAN, so it's more  an access point than a
gateway.

On Mon, Jun 1, 2026, 23:42 the keyboard of geoff goodfellow <
[email protected]> wrote:

> would the very first "gateway" perhaps be the Menehune application level
> "gateway" between the ALOHANET that "became operational in June 1971,
> providing the first public demonstration of a wireless packet data network"
> connected to the ARPANET?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALOHAnet
>
> yours truly spent some summer "vacations" in Hawaii in the '70s and was
> given use of an ALOHANET ICU to connect to a TI Silent 700 Thermal print
> out terminal yours truly lugged over there and fondly recalls using the
> HAWAII-ALOHA Menehune "gateway" to telnet connect back to SRI.  sadly yours
> truly no longer has the photo's of all that.. :(
>
> g
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 8:25 PM vinton cerf via Internet-history <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> thanks Brian - Judy Estrin used the term "brouter" for products from
>> Bridge
>> Communications.
>>
>> v
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 10:42 PM Brian E Carpenter <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Vint, I'm sure you're correct, but again quoting the same 1988 DDN
>> > document:
>> >
>> > "3.8.2. cisco Systems Gateways -
>> > PRODUCT-OR-PACKAGE-NAME: cisco Multi-Protocol Gateway Servers
>> > DESCRIPTION:
>> > The cisco family of gateways are multi-protocol routers linking networks
>> > of heterogeneous hosts and -
>> > media. All Gateway Servers are fully compliant with RFC 1009,
>> > "Requirements for Internet Gateways"."
>> >
>> > so clearly even Cisco was using both words.
>> >
>> > RFC 1009 (June 1987) uses "gateway" 154 times and "router" 16 times.
>> > It explicitly defines the terms about 180 degrees differently than Noel:
>> >
>> > "     Router      A router is a switch that receives data transmission
>> >                    units from input interfaces and, depending on the
>> >                    addresses in those units, routes them to the
>> >                    appropriate output interfaces.  There can be routers
>> >                    at different levels of protocol.  For example,
>> >                    Interface Message Processors (IMPs) are packet-level
>> >                    routers.
>> >
>> >        Gateway     In the Internet documentation generally, and in this
>> >                    document specifically, a gateway is an IP-level
>> >                    router.  In the Internet community the term has a
>> long
>> >                    history of this usage [32]."
>> >
>> > Regards/Ngā mihi
>> >     Brian
>> > On 02-Jun-26 13:32, vinton cerf wrote:
>> > > I had always thought that cisco introduced the term 'router" in 1984.
>> > >
>> > > v
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 8:52 PM Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history
>> <
>> > [email protected] <mailto:
>> [email protected]>>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >     This is slightly complicated by the IGP/EGP terminology. That
>> > persisted even when
>> > >     "router" became commonplace. I think we can date it to between
>> June
>> > 1988
>> > >     and June 1989:
>> > >
>> > >     RFC1058 (RIP, June 1988) uses "gateway" exclusively
>> > >
>> > >     RFC1105 (the first version of BGP, June 1989) uses "router"
>> > exclusively,
>> > >     except in the name of the protocol!
>> > >
>> > >     Wikipedia says that the p4200 came out in 1986. I couldn't find a
>> > manual,
>> > >     but its product name was in a May 1988 DoD report:
>> > >
>> > >     "Proteon p4200 Gateway
>> > >     ...
>> > >     The p4200 gateway is a multiprotocol router, supporting (among
>> other
>> > protocols) TCP/IP."
>> > >
>> > >     [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf <
>> > https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf>]
>> > >
>> > >     Also see: RFC1208 "A Glossary of Networking Terms" (March 1991)
>> > >
>> > >     Regards/Ngā mihi
>> > >          Brian
>> > >
>> > >     On 02-Jun-26 11:48, Noel Chiappa via Internet-history wrote:
>> > >      >      > From: Jack Haverty
>> > >      >
>> > >      >      > In the early Internet, the boxes interconnecting
>> networks
>> > were called
>> > >      >      > "gateways". Today they're called "routers".  But why the
>> > change...?
>> > >      >      >
>> > >      >      > So we started callig them "routers". Other companies
>> > (cisco, proteon,
>> > >      >      > ...) probably had similar experiences in their sales
>> > activities.
>> > >      >
>> > >      > If my memory isn't failing me (it well might be), I can take
>> part
>> > of the
>> > >      > blame.
>> > >      >
>> > >      > I do remember that I was pissed off because everyone and their
>> > brother
>> > >      > (across the industry generally) called any box that did digital
>> > >      > communications between two things a 'gateway'. E.g. a box that
>> > did email
>> > >      > forwarding from BITNET to the Internet was called a 'gateway'.
>> > I.e. 'gateway'
>> > >      > was useless as a technical term, because it covered an
>> impossibly
>> > wide range
>> > >      > of functionalities.
>> > >      >
>> > >      > (I am not sure if the p4200, the first Proteon router product,
>> > >      > post-dated the 'gateway' -> 'router' change; I'd have to try
>> and
>> > find an
>> > >      > original manual. If it pre-dated, I may have taken Proteon
>> > experience into
>> > >      > account too.)
>> > >      >
>> > >      > So I campaigned (I think it was me) in the IETF community to
>> come
>> > up with a
>> > >      > term limited to internetwork-level datagra packet switches, and
>> > 'router' was
>> > >      > picked.
>> > >      >
>> > >      >
>> > >      > I don't know if that change post-dated the creation of the IETF
>> > or not. I
>> > >      > remember such large-scale questions (i.e. not within the
>> purview
>> > of a WG,
>> > >      > after Phill set up the WG structure) were often discussed on
>> the
>> > main IETF
>> > >      > mailing list, so if we still have the email archive from the
>> > start of that
>> > >      > list, someone can dig into it.
>> > >      >
>> > >      > I remember that before the IETF existed, there was an email
>> list
>> > (I think
>> > >      > hosted at CNRI maybe, although CNRI didn't exist until 1986 -
>> > Jon's minutes
>> > >      > of TCP/IP meetings stop at the end of 1980) where a lot of
>> early
>> > TCP
>> > >      > internetworking discussions ('TCP internetworking' since there
>> > must have been
>> > >      > PUP internetworking discussions, too, inside Xerox) happened.
>> > Does anyone
>> > >      > remember what it was called?
>> > >      >
>> > >      > Any technical history of the creation of TCP internetting would
>> > _really_
>> > >      > benefit from having access to that email archive (if it still
>> > exists
>> > >      > somewhere; if not, maybe it would be possible to re-create it
>> by
>> > picking
>> > >      > through preserved emailboxes; or perhaps someone who printed
>> out
>> > all their
>> > >      > email still has those printouts).
>> > >      >
>> > >      > I feel sadly wary that a lot of our earliest history has been
>> > lost (since we
>> > >      > didn't use physical memos, which many technical histories
>> depend
>> > on for 'nuts
>> > >      > and bolts' primary sources) - except for the copy stored in
>> > 'meat' CPUs (who
>> > >      > will soon start dying off - historians take note, and act now,
>> > while you can).
>> > >      >
>> > >      >       Noel
>> > >     --
>> > >     Internet-history mailing list
>> > >     [email protected] <mailto:
>> > [email protected]>
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