RE: Fooled again! eBooks and truth in labelling

Dublin Core is used as part of the Open Ebook specification. It's embedded
in the .OPF package that describes the files that make up the ebook. As an
example:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE package PUBLIC "+//ISBN 0-9673008-1-9//DTD OEB 1.0.1 Package//EN"
"http://openebook.org/dtds/oeb-1.0.1/oebpkg101.dtd">
<package xmlns="http://openebook.org/namespaces/oeb-package/1.0/"
unique-identifier="DOI-067172052X">
  <metadata>
    <dc-metadata xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.0/"
xmlns:oebpackage="http://openebook.org/namespaces/oeb-package/1.0/">
      <dc:Title>Fallen Angels</dc:Title>
      <dc:Type>Novel</dc:Type>
      <dc:Identifier id="ISBN-0743435826"
scheme="ISBN-Hardcover">0-7434-3582-6</dc:Identifier>
      <dc:Identifier id="ISBN-067172052X"
scheme="ISBN-Paperback">0-671-72052-X</dc:Identifier>
      <dc:Identifier id="DOI-067172052X"
scheme="DOI">10.1125/Baen.067172052X</dc:Identifier>
      <dc:Publisher>Baen Publishing Enterprises</dc:Publisher>
      <dc:Creator role="aut" file-as="Niven, Larry ">Larry
Niven</dc:Creator>
      <dc:Creator role="aut" file-as="Pournell, Jerry ">Jerry
Pournell</dc:Creator>
      <dc:Creator role="aut" file-as="Flynn, Michael ">Michael
Flynn</dc:Creator>
      <dc:Contributor role="art" file-as="Eggleton, Bob ">Bob
Eggleton</dc:Contributor>
      <dc:Subject>Science Fiction</dc:Subject>
      <dc:Rights>2002 by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournell &amp; Michael
Flynn</dc:Rights>
      <dc:Date>1992-12-01</dc:Date>
      <dc:Language>US English (en-us)</dc:Language>
    </dc-metadata>
  </metadata>
</package>

You may be conflating two purposes. One is labeling the ebook within the
ebook. The other is sales information needed by a reseller.

The labeling of the ebook would not necessarily contain pricing information
because it is subject to change. It would contain the provenance, things
like the author and cover artist as above. Things that do not change. Note
the Primary Creator element is the Displayable name of the author. An
attribute can be added "file-as" to give the sort order. Titles can be
handled the same way if you want to sort leaving off the "The" of a title
for example.

Labeling for a reseller to include price and other information should refer
to an online link. Early in the DOI.org initiative (Digital Object
Identifier) they had the right idea of allowing each manufacturer a prefix
for their books. In the example above the DOI prefix is 10.1125 which is
common for Baen. The manufacturer could add whatever url info he likes after
the prefix to point to the documentation for that book. Then the info could
be retrieved with a http call like DOI://10.1125/Baen.067172052X to get the
book, DOI://10.1125/Baen.067172052X/list to get the sales info etc. The DOI
organization was to maintain a database of referrals that would take an URL
as above and redirect it to whatever the manufacturer had setup on his site
to handle it. 

DOI was a nice idea and Baen bought a prefix. Only The DOI people sold out
to the ISBN people effectively destroying the basic idea. 



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kent S. Larsen II
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 4:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ebook-community] Fooled again! eBooks and truth in labelling


I must admit, that I wasn't familiar with the Dublin Core. As far as I can
see, it seems to be a specification for all kinds of electronic documents,
regardless of whether the document is for sale or not.


I've given it a cursory look, and offhand, I'd say we need the following
(mostly infrastructure, not extensions to the schema):

1. Pricing and marketing information. Dublin Core does have audience and
subject information. But if I'm a retailer and I receive Dublin Core
information from a publisher about a title, how do I know what to charge? Or
at least what the "list price" for the title is?

2. A Description of how the Dublin Core elements work for ebooks -- on a
practical basis what information do I put in which elements and how are
these elements formatted and written (even such standards as, do you include
"Inc." after publisher name? and are author names written "Lastname,
Firstname" or just "Firstname Lastname"). It is possible that practical use
of Dublin Core in ebooks may require further specification for the needs of
this market.

3. Specification of the minimum elements required on every ebook. I thik
this gets at the core of Jon Jermey's complaint that started this thread --
the fact that ebook retailers don't give all the information that readers
want and need on their title listings.

4. A central place where ebook retailers can retrieve information about many
(if not most) ebooks, and where ebook publishers can upload information
about their books for retailers to retrieve. (i.e., a kind of books-in-print
for ebooks).

5. Wide acceptance of this ebook-oriented Dublin Core system among ebook
publishers, retailers and others in the industry.


I think that covers most of what would be needed. Admittedly, not that much
of it requires new elements not already in Dublin Core. But the other things
I've listed above are necessary for it to be used on a practical basis in
the ebook industry.

I'm particularly worried because I don't think I've seen too many websites
or electronic documents that actually include implementations of Dublin
Core. Is it actually used? Is it the type of thing that you can actually
tell when its been implemented for a site?

[Please remember, I've just heard of Dublin Core today, so it is possible I
don't understand everything about it. Please correct me where I've
misunderstood something.]

Kent


At 3:48 PM -0500 2/8/08, Arnold Bailey wrote:
>The Dublin Core standard already exists. What would you need that it
doesn't
>cover.
>
><http://dublincore.org/>http://dublincore.org/
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
<mailto:ebook-community%40yahoogroups.com>[email protected]
>[mailto:<mailto:ebook-community%40yahoogroups.com>ebook-community@yahoogrou
ps.com] On Behalf Of Kent S. Larsen II
>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:34 PM
>To:
<mailto:ebook-community%40yahoogroups.com>[email protected]
>Subject: Re: [ebook-community] Fooled again! eBooks and truth in labelling
>
>At 5:15 PM -0500 2/7/08, Brenna Lyons wrote:
>>Alternate pen name, if it was released under another, previously.
>>Don't laugh...I've seen it done. An author changes pen names or drops
>>one of two pen names and re-releases books under a new pen name. Makes
>>the head hurt.
>>
>>ANY OTHER RESTRICTIONS... Some publishers have certain PDF features
>>turned off...cannot be printed, cannot be copied and pasted, cannot be
>>reformatted to PDF for Palm... You get the idea. I'd certainly like to
>>know if something can't be converted to PDF for Palm, since that
>>affects how I can read it.
>>
>>Oh, and I'd change that first publication date to something more
>>useful to me. New work, reprint, expanded version, etc. If it's an
>>anthology of previously-released stories or an expanded version of
>>something released before, there should be enough room on the line to
>>give the particulars. Since I do this, as well (especially expanded
>>versions and anthologies of older works, perhaps with new stories in
>>the mix), I feel it's important to be up front with readers about it.
>>
>>I'd also add specific ratings or warnings, depending on the genre.
>>This is common on sensual/erotic publisher sites, but it's not so
>>popular elsewhere. I think it should be. I've always placed warnings
>>on books, even if they aren't erotic. For instance, since I write a
>>lot of dark romance genre (not to be confused with romance genre) or
>>dark fantasy/horror, I have a rating system and/or warnings to say WHY
>>something is dark. When I sent FAIRY DREAMS out for reviews, I put
>>topicality warnings on for the reviewers, because it was dark fantasy.
>>Some see romance and don't realize that, even if it's not dark
>>romance, it can be dark on the fantasy side.
>>
>>Brenna
>>--
>
>It seems like this thread is headed towards defining a title information
>exchange format.
>
>We talked a bit about how this could be useful on Book Futures
>(<mailto:Bookfutures%40yahoogroups.com>[email protected]), and I
think I'll post again now on this
>subject.
>
>The physical book industry has evolved just such a standard (its called
>Onyx, it is between 5 and 10 years old, iirc), after working with a variety
>of mechanisms that give book information over the years (library cataloging
>standards, the data transfer standards used by Ingram Book and B&T, etc.)
>Together, these standards mean that large bookstore chains and online
stores
>can collect information about nearly every book with a US-sourced ISBN.
>
>As we discussed on Book Futures, the lack of this kind of information is
one
>of the reasons that online ebook retailers don't offer so much of what is
>available, and what they do list lacks all the information that might be
>desired, as Jon Jermey observes.
>
>So, if you want to continue this exercise, may I suggest that it be done
>with an eye towards developing an Onyx-like standard? Something that allows
>ebook producers, reviewers and retailers to exchange the basic information
>about a title?
>
>Kent
>
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