Re: Re: Amazon remotely deletes 1984

From: "Erica Frank" 

> On 7/22/09, Kent S. Larsen II <kent-bvea5+VdNl1Wk0Htik3J/[email protected]> wrote:
>> At 12:55 PM -0500 7/21/09, Robotech_Master wrote:
>>
>> Hmmm. Does Amazon really have a responsibility to confirm that an ebook publisher has the right to publish each work?
>>
>>  I'd have to go look at the Kindle agreement, but I'm fairly sure it says something like "publisher warrants that it has the right to publish each book uploaded to the Kindle system, and indemnifies Amazon for any losses for works that it doesn't have the right to publish."
> 
> That defense didn't work for ThePirateBay; I don't see why it should
> work for Amazon. Saying, "but they clicked on a button that said it
> was legal!" is not enough.

Erica,

Your points are very strong and I largely agree [but see near the end about Amzon's status]. The wheels are now coming off the 'internet is a new system' idea. As you detail, the rules of business, ownership and responsiblity have not changed.

> 
>>  Confirmation is not required for any brick-and-mortar store. No one is checking to see if
>> Random House has the right to publish the latest Danielle Steele title.
> 
> Brick-and-mortar stores don't allow random people to walk in off the
> street and sell books on their shelves, either. They work through
> distributors connected to publishers, and there are legal
> contracts--with real, legal signatures--involved.
> 
> Amazon should be requiring the same level of confirmation that any
> paper publisher uses: a notarized signature on a contract, not a
> click-though contract.
> 
>>  Why are we assuming that Amazon should check ebook publishers for the right to
>> publish? And if they do have this responsibility, how does a publisher reassure Amazon
>> that it has the rights? File documentation? A contract? What?
> 
> 1) Because Amazon is making a serious profit on those publications; if
> they're selling illegal content, they're liable for damages to both
> the original copyright holder, and the customers to whom they promised
> content that's not available. It's fraud to offer items for sale that
> don't actually exist.

And since they are repackaged there is also the question of counterfeiting.

> 
> 2) Contracts. Notarized contracts with real identification info, not
> forms that can be filled out anonymously with fake bank/credit card
> info.
> 
> 3) They could also keep a database of 3-10k books that are not in the
> public domain, for which there is serious ebook demand, that they
> should watch for. This would work two ways--both as security for them,
> and as marketing data; Amazon could seek out legit copies to sell.

It is the responsiblity for what they put in the window and on the digital shelves that is most lacking here. Positive confirmation of rights works in all business law as I understand it. The idea of not checking stock is validly offered is not business, but fencing!

> 
>>  It is certainly possible that the ebook environment will make it so easy to sell illicit
>> copies of ebook titles that retailers will have this responsibility foisted upon them --
> 
> Not "retailers." Publishers. Amazon is acting as a publishing house,
> not a reseller. Amazon is taking raw content, formatting it for
> publication, and offering it in a closed setting (can only buy Kindle
> books if you own a Kindle or iPhone).

I am not sure you are right. This is more a matter of repackaging. Since the outlet is limited to a 'membership' it might equate to a book club. But in the round sense of publishing it is at best a sub-publisher [if there is such a thing].

> 
>> essentially raising a barrier to entry for new retailers (not what the ebook market needs,
>> IMO). But until this happens, I don't think that Amazon or anyone else has a
>> responsibility to check that the publisher has the rights it needs to publish any particular
>> ebook.
> 
> Amazon *is* the publisher of these ebooks. Nobody else can create
> Kindle-DRM'd ebooks. And the publisher certainly does have the
> obligation to confirm that the books they create are legal to sell.

The obligation is on any business, that wishes to be regarded as within the law, that it is entitled to sell the items it offers and sells. It does not need to be a publisher to have that responsibility. And I am sure it is more correct to say no one else has the legal right to make a Kindle-DRM [give any geek a challenge...]; but that is more akin to a specialist printer and a patented system.

My reason for being concerned about this is the importance of not blurring understanding of publishing. The definition of publisher may have to be more tightly defined as the new technology makes more demands on past methods and contractual approaches.

The efforts of those who want to take as much as they can out of the industry while putting little or nothing back is making for a real fight over the way business is conducted in the future. Both big gorillas and pirates are hoping confusions caused by new technology will let them control the future.

Joseph 

Joseph Harris  -  Debt Control Man
author: Control Your Debt Crisis on Your Own Terms
blog: http://debtcontrolman.wordpress.com
http://www.controlyourdebtcrisis.co.uk
debt dictionary: http://www.controlyourdebtcrisis.co.uk/debtwiki/



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