Re: what are orphan works?

From: "Erica Frank" 
> On 9/27/09, jon <jonjermey-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/[email protected]> wrote:
>> > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:17 AM, joseph harris <[email protected]> wrote:
>>  >
>>  >> I am genuinely puzzled at what exactly people do expect to find that is of value. I'm not asking for either justification of the general idea, nor of the view opposing that. I don't think I've seen a fistful of actual examples, or even genuine areas that are going to produce this 'great benefit'.
>>  >
>>
>>
>> Here's a fistful for you:
>>
>>  Between 1924 and 1960 the British author John Rhode wrote all the books
>>  listed below under a variety of names. Guess how many of them are now in
>>  print? Two or three at the most. Yet Rhode was a famous and established
>>  writer who was and is much loved by his fans, and produced a unique type
>>  of detective story which has never been surpassed.
> 
> How are these "orphaned?" Were they re-registered, and the person or
> heir of the person who registered them is unfindable?
> 
> If they were published in the US, and weren't re-registered with the
> US copyright office 28 years (+/-1) after their original publication,
> those are in the public domain.
> 

First my thanks to the replies to my original post. These all have interesting points and certainly show problems to be solved. On that I agree entirely. [Do not be fooled that Google is your answer though; better I don't expand on this now ;-)!]

Erica, 

Do be careful with your assumptions about copyright and public domain. The changes in US copyright law are a messy tangle at best. And from around 1960 it is far safer to assume all books are covered by current law. In any case, Jon's list are of UK published works. It is a long time since the US ignored rights in other countries. UK copyright has followed Berne for well over a hundred years. The US is also now fully a signatory to Berne.

However your earlier post does contain very interesting points. My own arrived a bit later than that, but in it I acknowledged the problem in film. I would add that the tangle of copyright is probably even worse than you detail, and there are also simple ownership issues which can be a massive tangle. In Up In Arms there is a song by Danny Kaye that captures exactly that tangle!

I think it is the National Film Archive in the UK which is trying to restore the vast backlog of old film, but I am not up to date on the copyright issues in that.

I believe it is a mistake to try to make just a single law to cover all IP, or for the US - or any other country - to act alone. In film [movie] there is a clear need, as you and others have stated, for national bodies, maybe international ones, to act on preservation. This would require some overriding of rights, but this need not be wider spread than the problem being addressed. The cost of the work is beyond most owners anyway, and there could be provision for rights assignment, on an 'in loco parentis' basis, to the national bodies. These bodies would then be free to attempt to recoup costs by hire and screenings and so on.

Audio is less complex, probably only in lacking vision! There must be many early wax discs even which might yield useful sounds. Even then my impression is the costs are immense. Again I doubt if individuals or even dedicated groups would be able to make much inroad.

I think the way to get something achieved is to think in this fashion of addressing each problem that is there narrowly, and seek a solution to that; rather than creating a great umbrella that is of more use to big corporations than to saving cultural artefacts.

I am very intersted by Jon's problem. I must say one or two of those titles look familiar, and I may well have read a book or two from his list. But his problem is not so difficult. And that really applies to the printed word pre-WWW. Copyrights were much simpler, and less was demanded by licencees.

It is highly unlikely that any publisher of the books held rights for more than about five years, and these would probably have been renewed for subsequent editions. It might be worth contacting our National Library to see if there is information on standard contracts of the period. It is also likely that records of the publishers exist, and any purchase of the companies should be on record.

The death of such a prolific writer would almost certainly have been recorded in newspaper obituaries, and again Librarians are your friends in following up on such research.

I actually don't understand Beth's experience. Once a book is sold under normal contract conditions the copy is the property of the buyer, not the rights owner. Changes in copyright licencing can hardly be retrospective. It seems a wierd action by your campsus bookshop; certainly it doesn't sg=how any weakness in copyright law. I would love to know what it was actually about. What rights could be retained to prevent the borrowing of a sold book? Very odd.

Erica's list of published works that would need special treatment is long and I would agree would include a large number - though I don't know what percentage of each kind of work - of works that could be preserved only by some pre-emptive action. Again I see the case for a specific law addressed to the problem. I do not think it wisdom to make a blanket law though, even if the individual details of the IP affected could be in one Act.

The problem with all this, the other side of the coin, is the risk to legitimately copyright works where the owners can be easily found, and where they do no wish their material to be put back on the market, or maybe not even preserved. A blanket law permits acting first and asking questions afterwards.  The difficulties of contract details and plans by owners would be cut across by those - often - with pecuniary gain in mind, not contribution to the community.

A difficult law to write, a lot of work for all, but that is how IP works. To encourage new contribution.

Joseph

Joseph Harris  -  Debt Control Man
author: Control Your Debt Crisis on Your Own Terms
blog: http://debtcontrolman.wordpress.com
http://www.controlyourdebtcrisis.co.uk
debt dictionary: http://www.controlyourdebtcrisis.co.uk/debtwiki/


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