Re: Re: What kind of pirate am I?

From: "Barry"
>You have to be careful when comparing issues with physical books and digital books. There's a lot more than cost of production that's different. A physical book is an inventory item. When you take a physical book the owner that you're taking it from has one less of that item and you have one more. It's a zero sum game.

Unfortunately,  Barry, you show no understanding of the publishing process and costs. While the reproduction of a digital file is very low, the actual cost of the physical print book is also not a major part of end price. and that. Barry, is an unemotional fact.

>DIgital books aren't that way. If you make a copy of a digital book you haven't deprived the owner of a copy of that book. You haven't screwed up his accounting and very likely he perceives no loss of any kind.

That is not a valid argument. the law is quite specific, as is the US Constitution, as is the international Berne Convention: the creator owns the rights to ALL copies. That is another unemotional fact. The issue is not one of money, but of rights under (US) constitution, the law and convention. There are important aspects of privacy also covered by copyright.

>Of course there is potential loss if you would have otherwise bought the book. But if you've bought it in IBooks and now you want to read it on your Kindle there's no real loss if you make a copy. And if you do buy a second digital copy you're paying extra because of limitations. Neither way is fair. If you don't pay the publisher/bookseller feels cheated and with some justification and if you do have to pay you should feel cheated with as much justification.

You deliberately confuse two different things. Ther is no entitlement on the reader to make copies, in any technology. The logic of the internet requires a distinction between the copies of transmission process, and the copies of end use. It is quite possible to have one file in one format that can be read on almost any device. The issue you raise is only when a copy is in a proprietary format. You are then buying a service, related to teh way that specific device works and the way your purchases are stored and available. That becomes contract law. The argument is then with the issuer of the proprietary format, and not the author or publisher; nor, at that point  is it a matter of copyright. By copying into another format you are breaking the contract with proprietary supplier.

>This is only about the moral view. Legally the two instances have little in common. Stealing a physical object is theft, and while publishers like to call sharing books theft, it's hardly the same thing. It's cheating, not theft. Each situation is covered by different laws with different penalties.

Please explain how any of the foregoing is a moral issue. All your arguments  seem to be about flying in the face of law and contract. Theft has two definitions, Legally it is defined for specific issues of taking what is not yours, Morally it is a concept - basically 'Thou shalt not steal'.  The moral concept covers all the acts you are wriggling on the hook of.

>Nearly all the arguments I read about the various piracy issues (including my own) are propoganda and dogmatic attempts to appeal to emotions with heavy use of powerful buzzwords.

Then stop being dogmatic, and either confess you are by instinct a pirate, or analyse in the way I have indicated above.  Brenna often makes the point that few copyright owners or holders get exercised about individuals making digital copies for personal convenience. But they sure as hell turn into lynch mobs faced with teh kind of dodging you are attempting.  And that is pretty emotional!

>If this issue is ever going to be usefully discussed people have to find ways to stop the emotional nonsense and discuss the real issues. This is very complicated stuff and most of the parties that care about it are intelligent people so this should somehow be possible.
>
>Barry

OK Barry, start with my comments above and then read up on copyright [there are some excellent sites with a mass of free information and a great deal of valuable knowledge]. Read up on publishing and consider the many arguments that surrounf the issues of publishing costs and timing. Read up on teh problems of both having and avoiding gatekeepers. Learn some history on the technologies of making copies from about 4,000 years ago - that will help you understand why the digital 'revolution' changes very little of the overall argument.

When you have done that listen to the answers to your question when you honestly ask about the real challenges facing writers and all those in publishing. And start perhaps [I assume you are an American] with a fresh read of the appropriate part of the US Constitution.

Joseph

Joseph Harris is Smile Poet
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