Re: Re: Copyright Expiration ?

Hi Joseph,

You flatter me by reading what I wrote so carefully. Thank you. :)

I didn't mean anything in particular by "my copyright"--I have zero
valuable copyrights--I was just speculating about drawbacks to including
"how long out of print" as a factor in determining when copyright would
lapse (which is what I thought Dave was suggesting).

All the points you make are good ones. These issues are interesting to
think about,

Beth


On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 10:27 AM, joseph h <joe9438-/[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> On 02/08/2012 4:11 PM, Beth Young wrote:
> >
> > I am intrigued by the idea of taking into consideration how long a
> > book has
> > been out of print as well as life of the author plus X years.
> >
> > One reason for copyright is to establish conditions that nurture
> creators,
> > because all society benefits from what is created. If someone creates a
> > work but then that work is not made available to society for a
> significant
> > length of time, it seems that copyright isn't fulfilling its whole
> > purpose.
> >
> > There are problems with this point of view, of course. Suppose I write a
> > book then disavow it--surely I should have the right to keep it
> > unavailable. Or suppose I really want to make my book available but no
> one
> > will publish it--it's not fair to punish me by taking away my copyright.
> > (Plus that creates an incentive for works to not get published during the
> > copyright period).
> >
> > But it's an interesting idea that helps tackle the orphan works problem.
> >
> > Beth
> >
>
> Beth,
>
> In part that is the concept and wording of the Queen Anne Act, Berne and
> the US Constitution. I imagine you are working from the last of these.
> There is no question that the case for copyright legislation is the
> contribution to society that comes from the activity as a whole. In
> variations of detail that applies to other IP of course.
>
> With certain exceptions I have always thought that outside attempts to
> micromanage how the author handles their works is defeating the
> objective of the legislation. Creativity does not work, or works far
> less well, in a restrictive environment.  So, if an author must, as you
> appear to be saying, publish his work it removes the opportunity to
> experiment; not only that it raises an almost impossible question about
> when do the words on paper change from research to outline to first
> thinking to first draft to any number of drafts to ready manuscript? And
> how is that affected by the method of publishing - thus one may
> self-publish what one pleases (though that is unlikely to please
> buyers), one may utilise some editing and design services, or one may
> seek the fine sifting of a traditional publisher.
>
> At what point is that the book that must be published under the regime
> that interests you?
>
> Then we are at a watershed where, in effect, no new book will be out of
> print/availability. Between ebooks, POD and print the issue will not
> arise. Books made before about ten years ago are in a different category
> where many are not available. I have no understanding of why, as a
> general rule, that is necessarily a bad thing. There are some specific
> titles mentioned from time to time, but I have seen few titles offered
> as serious examples.
>
> As regards not publishing a work, there are many authors of note who
> have not, or did not in their lifetimes, offer everything they wrote. We
> know this in part from 'previously unpublished works' that are
> publicised from time to time. But I must make another point to you.
> Copyright applies to ALL original written work.  This will include
> private and personal items like diaries.
>
> What I simply do not understand in what you write is the points "it's
> not fair to punish me by taking away my copyright" and "creates an
> incentive for works to not get published during the copyright period" .
> First, while a pirate might steal your work, or an "orphan chaser"
> pretend he can't find you, there is no legal way for anyone to take away
> your copyright - not even yourself. You can licence for free use, thus
> gaining no commercial benefit - or at least not directly; or you can
> licence it through Creative Commons - which is the creation of standard
> licences under copyright law for specific sharing purposes; or you can
> choose to keep it out of sight, or simply publish it.
>
> As I already pointed out, the copyright period now, and in most
> countries is life of the author plus 70 years. So I can see no
> commercial benefit in not publishing until the heirs no longer have any
> rights.  Even your concept of being "punished" by no one publishing your
> work is no longer an argument; the barriers to self publishing are now
> so low that it can be done with less effort than seeking a conventional
> publisher.
>
> There is a further problem with the description "out of print",
> something I raised when Google ignorantly included it in its now stalled
> Book Agreement. The term itself is usually used in contracts with
> publishers, and its definition can vary across a number and range of
> agreements. Book print runs, like medical tablet production, are in
> batches. The date of printing itself will offer no indication of whether
> copies of the book are available or not. While most bookshops return
> books that have occupied space for a while, books may stay on some
> shelves for years. If it is still available in one is it unavailable? Is
> being remaindered still available? Or out of print? And if it is
> remaindered, in any case, is there a market that makes it worth worrying
> about?
>
> I think you can see that I have a serious problem with your idea. That
> centres on the question of what need there is for any vigorous work on
> "orphan works", and on the dangers of any weakening of copyright, which
> is difficult enough to defend as it is.
>
> Joseph Harris
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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