Re: Buying vs renting

Yes, there are some interesting legal twists.  In Canada, for instance, the estate does not have to pay taxes on any gain in value of the owners’ principle residence during the time they owned it prior to becoming deceased.

However, there may be taxes payable by the heir(s) in any case. 

It turns out that, in Canada at least, the Estate is a separate legal entity and becomes the “owner” of said principle residence (and all other assets) from the time of death to the time of disposition. If there is a gain during that time it becomes taxable. Likely not a big issue most of the time. But in a lengthy probate or a hot housing market it can be a shock to the heirs.

Just a small example of a variety of potential gotchas with that sort of thing. I’m sure other jurisdictions and use of other possible options will all have their own to consider.

. ...ken...



From: Stephen D. Williams
Sent: February 28, 2018 4:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FoRK] Buying vs renting

I thought I had friends here who knew all the things; I expect that they could spout off in depth at a moment's notice about 
anything!  I'm crushed.

Each law has to have a way of being applied to each type of entity.  I'll have to research it soon.  I suspect a lot of what 
actually goes on isn't clearly out there.  So far, this seems like it is an area where the useful details are between high-end 
accounts, attorneys, wealthy clients, and IRS agents who have no interest in sharing everything that is acceptable, possible, or 
beneficial.  A few well-known public cases that mention details I'd never heard of or seen reinforce that.

sdw

On 2/28/18 1:54 PM, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:
> You do understand there are more laws in the world than just probate,
> correct?  I mentioned a couple of them, but DYOR.
>
> Greg
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 1:40 PM, Stephen D. Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I learned a few years ago that it is often advantageous to place assets
>> like real estate into revocable trusts, especially later in life and
>> generally avoiding probate. The same can probably be done with stocks.  How
>> does that change the legal situation?
>>
>> sdw
>>
>>
>> On 2/28/18 12:59 PM, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:
>>
>>> Homes as an asset have certain legal protections, especially in tax and
>>> bankruptcy codes. Stock assets do not share the same level of protections.
>>> More importantly, I wouldn't make too many assumptions about FoRK culture.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Lucas Gonze <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This conversation has been surprising.
>>>> The USA Today articles represent a pretty solid consensus. Home values
>>>> rise
>>>> more slowly than the stock market, therefore you should grow your net
>>>> worth
>>>> by moving assets over. I expected the hardcore rationalism in FoRK
>>>> culture
>>>> to reflect this.
>>>>
>>>> Instead, not a single person is living in accordance with it.
>>>>
>>>> Arbitrage opportunity? Or is original math wrong, and how?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:09 AM, Lucas Gonze <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That all makes sense but the last part. His friend's estate would have
>>>>> been worth more if he'd taken the month by month savings and put them in
>>>>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>> stock index fund.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2018 7:24 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read the responses and the best example I have is the following:
>>>>>> My father joined the US Navy straight out of High School along with
>>>>>> his best friend.  They both served in the USN for 20 years and both
>>>>>> retired with full benefits. They both got married at around the same
>>>>>> time and they both had 2 kids.  They both were rotated around the
>>>>>> country every 2 years.  The major difference is my father always
>>>>>> bought and sold a private home (every 2 years) when changing duty
>>>>>> stations.  His friend always stayed in on-base family housing paid
>>>>>> for by the USN.  When they both retired to their original home town,
>>>>>> my father had bought his home outright ($185,00.00).  He didn't have
>>>>>> a monthly house payment for a 1600 sq/ft house on a wooded 1 acre lot.
>>>>>> His friend also bought a similar house ($165,000.00) 5 miles away on
>>>>>> similar property and had to pay $1024.00 month out of his
>>>>>> retirement,  (which my father  didn't have to do).  My father, with
>>>>>> the savings, was able to  buy a boat and RV, his friend just scraped
>>>>>> by.  When my dad died his estate was worth approximately $425,000.00
>>>>>> and when his friend died, his estate was worth around $35,000.00.
>>>>>> I find this was the best argument for buying over renting (when
>>>>>> renting was free in this situation).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my IBM Selectric III
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Friends of Rohit Khare" <[email protected]>
>>>>>> To:"FoRK Rohit Khare" <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Cc:
>>>>>> Sent:Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:00:27 -0800
>>>>>> Subject:Re: [FoRK] Buying vs renting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    > On Feb 27, 2018, at 3:03 PM, Marty Halvorson <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>    >
>>>>>>    > Despite Tom's excellent thoughts on the subject, my observation is
>>>>>> this: All the money spent renting is benefiting only the owner of the
>>>>>> rental unit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Presumably you get use of the unit you are renting. The common
>>>>>> fallacy of renting as “throwing away money” is predicated on the
>>>>>> renter and the owner having an identical cost basis for the same
>>>>>> place. This assumption is rarely true. Renting is often a way to split
>>>>>> the difference between your cost basis to buy and the owner’s lower
>>>>>> cost basis. In such cases, there is literally no way for you to come
>>>>>> out ahead by buying the same place no matter how you try to explain
>>>>>> the numbers unless you are loaded with cash (which is probably a bad
>>>>>> investment of said cash). And this is the case more often than not in
>>>>>> the US.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I find the arguments that some people gain emotional or psychological
>>>>>> benefits from buying more compelling than arguments for financial
>>>>>> benefits. Of course, the calculus is a bit different if you plan on
>>>>>> living in the place you buy for the rest of your life. Admittedly, I
>>>>>> have not gotten to the “last place I am going to live” stage yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

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