Re: on original sin

salam,

like i said, we are each responsible for our actions... in this world. but when adam and eve "fell from grace", so did their progeny. so, in fact their children (us) did/do carry the burden of their parents, no? a muslim once argued with me when i brought this point saying "because that was their children, they had to see the fate of their parents ... how can god allow them to the garden (of eden)?"

well, my argument then and now is... isn't this the same god who brought children of adam from the future and made them bear witness against their souls (see qur'an 7:172) that god is their lord? the whole thing called the "original sin" is proved in that verse... because apparently, god knew ALL of us would break that rule... or we are living the orignal sin ... take your pick :)

we are in a dimension of the universe now... where we have to make daily choices to do good... compared to making one choice to trust god in the garden, where everything was pure. that is the original sin (i.e, having to go through this world.)

and, yes, the idea is to prove we are worthy. in the qur'an, the only sin that is not forgiven is shirk (see 4:48) which is the sin of distrusting god enough to believe in something else while you believe in god (does that ring a bell? lol) ... compared to the sin of kufr or disbelieving in god totally. this is because we are all here becuase of shirk... and god forgave us for it once :) someone said why doesn't god forgive shirk as he can forgive even kufr. well, look at it as "i forgive you once, shame on you... forgive you twice, shame on me!" :-)))

afdhere

Afdhere Jama
Editorial Director
HURIYAH Publications
S A N F R A N C I S C O
[email protected]
http://www.huriyahmag.com

>From: itrath >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: >Subject: Re: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] on original sin >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 22:46:19 -0800 > > >salaam, > >how is that orginal sin? the idea is not to "prove" we are worthy. the >idea is to live our life well and make the choice to do good. the idea that >each of us bears our own burden and no on else's burden is central. > >masalaama, > >itrath > > 2/5/04 6:37 PM, Afdhere Jama at [email protected] wrote: > > > > > salam, > > > > actually, original sin is as much part of islam as it is in christianity. and > > in many sense, far more "driven" in islam than it is in christiantiy. > > > > while christianity blames us for adam, the qur'an
actually sort of blames all > > of mankind. for example, 7:172 of the qur'an talks about bring us all from the > > future... to bear witness of god's existance and oneness. and then in 33:72, > > the qur'an talks about mankind choosing the responsiblity to choose, which all > > of the other creations apparently refused. > > > > also, in the qur'an, god warned adam and eve not to approach the tree or that > > they would be of the devil. so the choice was actually all theirs. > > > > that said, traditional islam teaches that the world is 'transit' and that we > > are here to 'prove' ourselves to god--- that yes, god is one... that yes, we > > can follow god's orders, etc. > > > > yes, we don't walk around saying "oh, we are so sinful" ... and yes, each > > individual is responsible for their actions. thi
s is because god forgave adam > > and eve and hence we all have a 'second' chance to "prove" ourselves. > > > > i think the 'original sin' is more of a abrahamic-faith rather than > > 'christianity' or 'islam' or whatever. > > > > > > > > afdhere > > > > > > Afdhere Jama > > Editorial Director > > HURIYAH Publications > > S A N F R A N C I S C O > > [email protected] > > http://www.huriyahmag.com > > > >> From: "Caridad" >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: > >> [email protected] >Subject: Re: > >> [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #364 - 9 > >> msgs >Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:49:53 -0500 > >Salaam aleikum, > >I'm new her
e > >> to some of you and am a returned member for those of you who >remember me > >> from before. I just got back from living in Southern Africa (a >fabulous 9 > >> months . . . I so wish I could just settle there), so have >returned to the > >> list. > >I would like to respond to just one thing that y2 said: > > > I'm > >> always reminded of a the 'original sin'. God told Adam do not eat >from > > > >> this tree. God did NOT give Adam a reason like the tree is poisoness or >the > >> > > tree will affect your state of mind...God simply gave Adam a direct > >> order. > > Adam/Eve eventually ate from the tree, and that was the original > >> sin. A > > simple insignificant innocent act of eating a fruit. > > > > The > >> orignal sin w
as not rape, murder, theft...It was disobeying a simple > > > >> insignificant order from God. But it was more than that wasn't it. > > >> >Charity's comment: > >I wanted to point out that original sin is actually a > >> Christian theological >concept. Muslims believe that all people are born with > >> innate goodness: >Fitrah. This theological concept says that ALL people are > >> born muslim (with >a little 'm': submission to the Divine), with the innate > >> nature to do good >and worship the One God, Allah. The theological concept of > >> original sin >says that ALL people are born with this inherited original sin > >> which >required the 'sacrifice' of Jesus to absolve, as well as the idea that > >> >peoples' inherant nature is to choose to sin. There is NO conce
pt of > >> >original sin in Islam. We 'people' are responsible for our own actions, not > >> >those of Adam, Eve, or any other predecesor. >I have to say this difference > >> is one of the main reasons for my choosing to >be a Muslim. For me it makes > >> alot more sense . . . I like to meet people >and give them the benefit of the > >> doubt. In most cases I find that people >are genuine, not out to hurt me or > >> others consciously, etc. It is more in >tune with my innate optimism. With > >> the idea of original sin, it means that >I would meet new people with the > >> idea that this person's innate choice will >be evil, doing bad, trying to > >> hurt, etc. So for me, the Muslim concept of >Fitrah is constantly reinforced > >> in my contemplation of and experience
in >Creation. > >I just wanted to make > >> my voice heard :) he he he, and say hello to some of >the familiar faces > >> here! > >-Charity > > >_______________________________________________ > >> >ProgressiveMuslims mailing list >[email protected] > >> >http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Get some great ideas here for your sweetheart on Valentine's Day - and beyond. > > > > _______________________________________________ ProgressiveMuslims mailing > > list [email protected] > > http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims > >
>_______________________________________________ >ProgressiveMuslims mailing list >[email protected] >http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims

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