Re: on original sin

being sent to earth was not part of the punishment.  repentance and
forgiveness came first.

itrath


on 2/6/04 8:47 AM, Afdhere Jama at [email protected] wrote:

> 
> salam, sister eileen,
> 
> well in the qur'an, the punishment for adam and eve's sin was that they were
> put in a world where they had to fight sin all the time. me thinks we all face
> that punishment, no? and, yes, we are tainted as well. in the qur'an, god
> threatens adam and eve's descendants, after he forgives them:
> 
> "We said; 'go from this (garden), surely my guidance will come to you and then
> whoever follows my guidance neither shall fear nor grief. and as for those who
> disbelieve and reject my guidance, they are the inmates of the hell-fire; in
> it they shall abide.'"(qur'an, 2:38-39)
> 
> so, what that says is that anyone who does  not believe in god's guidance (the
> prophets, books, etc) will face the original sin's forever punishment, not
> just the immediate punishment alone (which all good and bad humans face.) now
> how the heck does that differ from christians' belief that those who
> disbelieve in christ are not saved from the original sin?
> 
> it is not a matter of being 'able' to sin, it is a matter of cleansing
> ourselves from a sin... daily. it is what traditional muslims call jihad el
> nafs or the struggle of the soul-- that constant fight with evil... in us and
> around us.
> afdhere
> 
> 
> Afdhere Jama 
> Editorial Director
> HURIYAH Publications
> S A N F R A N C I S C O
> [email protected]
> http://www.huriyahmag.com <http://www.huriyahmag.com/>
> 
>> From: "kas2eileen" >Reply-To: [email protected] >To:
>> >Subject: Re: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] on original sin >Date: Fri, 6 Feb
>> 2004 08:18:08 -0500 > >salaam afdhere, I think you are confusing original sin
>> with being able to sin. Original sin means we inherit the taint and
>> punishment for a sin committed by others from birth and must overcome it.
>> That is against the Koran. Free choice to sin and the expectation of it and
>> the responsibility for it, still only puts punishment on the sinner. That is
>> different. Eileen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Afdhere Jama > To:
>> [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004
>> 9:37 PM > Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] on original sin > > > > salam,
>> > > actually, original sin is as much part of islam as it is in christianity.
>> and in many sense, far more "driven" in islam than it is in christiantiy. > >
>> while christianity blames us for adam, the qur'an actually sort of blames all
>> of mankind. for example, 7:172 of the qur'an talks about bring us all from
>> the future... to bear witness of god's existance and oneness. and then in
>> 33:72, the qur'an talks about mankind choosing the responsiblity to choose,
>> which all of the other creations apparently refused. > > also, in the qur'an,
>> god warned adam and eve not to approach the tree or that they would be of the
>> devil. so the choice was actually all theirs. > > that said, traditional
>> islam teaches that the world is 'transit' and that we are here to 'prove'
>> ourselves to god--- that yes, god is one... that yes, we can follow god's
>> orders, etc. > > yes, we don't walk around saying "oh, we are so sinful" ...
>> and yes, each individual is responsible for their actions. this is because
>> god forgave adam and eve and hence we all have a 'second' chance to "prove"
>> ourselves. > > i think the 'original sin' is more of a abrahamic-faith rather
>> than 'christianity' or 'islam' or whatever. > > > > afdhere > > > > > Afdhere
>> Jama > Editorial Director > HURIYAH Publications > S A N F R A N C I S C O >
>> [email protected] > http://www.huriyahmag.com > > >From: "Caridad"
>> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To:
>> [email protected] >Subject: Re:
>> [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #364 - 9
>> msgs >Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:49:53 -0500 > >Salaam aleikum, > >I'm new here
>> to some of you and am a returned member for those of you who >remember me
>> from before. I just got back from living in Southern Africa (a >fabulous 9
>> months . . . I so wish I could just settle there), so have >returned to the
>> list. > >I would like to respond to just one thing that y2 said: > > > I'm
>> always reminded of a the 'original sin'. God told Adam do not eat >from > >
>> this tree. God did NOT give Adam a reason like the tree is poisoness or >the
>> > > tree will affect your state of mind...God simply gave Adam a direct
>> order. > > Adam/Eve eventually ate from the tree, and that was the original
>> sin. A > > simple insignificant innocent act of eating a fruit. > > > > The
>> orignal sin was not rape, murder, theft...It was disobeying a simple > >
>> insignificant order from God. But it was more than that wasn't it. >
>> >Charity's comment: > >I wanted to point out that original sin is actually a
>> Christian theological >concept. Muslims believe that all people are born with
>> innate goodness: >Fitrah. This theological concept says that ALL people are
>> born muslim (with >a little 'm': submission to the Divine), with the innate
>> nature to do good >and worship the One God, Allah. The theological concept of
>> original sin >says that ALL people are born with this inherited original sin
>> which >required the 'sacrifice' of Jesus to absolve, as well as the idea that
>> >peoples' inherant nature is to choose to sin. There is NO concept of
>> >original sin in Islam. We 'people' are responsible for our own actions, not
>> >those of Adam, Eve, or any other predecesor. >I have to say this difference
>> is one of the main reasons for my choosing to >be a Muslim. For me it makes
>> alot more sense . . . I like to meet people >and give them the benefit of the
>> doubt. In most cases I find that people >are genuine, not out to hurt me or
>> others consciously, etc. It is more in >tune with my innate optimism. With
>> the idea of original sin, it means that >I would meet new people with the
>> idea that this person's innate choice will >be evil, doing bad, trying to
>> hurt, etc. So for me, the Muslim concept of >Fitrah is constantly reinforced
>> in my contemplation of and experience in >Creation. > >I just wanted to make
>> my voice heard :) he he he, and say hello to some of >the familiar faces
>> here! > >-Charity > > >_______________________________________________
>> >ProgressiveMuslims mailing list >[email protected]
>> >http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims > >
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