Re: on original sin

> 
> being sent to earth was not part of the punishment. 
> repentance and
> forgiveness came first.
> 
> itrath

Absolutely. The verse that talks about the first time
God told the angels about human creation indicates
that from the very beginning the intention was for
humans to be on earth. It is a feature not a
bug/punishment!.

Salam


> 
> 
> on 2/6/04 8:47 AM, Afdhere Jama at
> [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > salam, sister eileen,
> > 
> > well in the qur'an, the punishment for adam and
> eve's sin was that they were
> > put in a world where they had to fight sin all the
> time. me thinks we all face
> > that punishment, no? and, yes, we are tainted as
> well. in the qur'an, god
> > threatens adam and eve's descendants, after he
> forgives them:
> > 
> > "We said; 'go from this (garden), surely my
> guidance will come to you and then
> > whoever follows my guidance neither shall fear nor
> grief. and as for those who
> > disbelieve and reject my guidance, they are the
> inmates of the hell-fire; in
> > it they shall abide.'"(qur'an, 2:38-39)
> > 
> > so, what that says is that anyone who does  not
> believe in god's guidance (the
> > prophets, books, etc) will face the original sin's
> forever punishment, not
> > just the immediate punishment alone (which all
> good and bad humans face.) now
> > how the heck does that differ from christians'
> belief that those who
> > disbelieve in christ are not saved from the
> original sin?
> > 
> > it is not a matter of being 'able' to sin, it is a
> matter of cleansing
> > ourselves from a sin... daily. it is what
> traditional muslims call jihad el
> > nafs or the struggle of the soul-- that constant
> fight with evil... in us and
> > around us.
> > afdhere
> > 
> > 
> > Afdhere Jama 
> > Editorial Director
> > HURIYAH Publications
> > S A N F R A N C I S C O
> > [email protected]
> > http://www.huriyahmag.com
> <http://www.huriyahmag.com/>
> > 
> >> From: "kas2eileen" >Reply-To:
> [email protected] >To:
> >> >Subject: Re: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] on
> original sin >Date: Fri, 6 Feb
> >> 2004 08:18:08 -0500 > >salaam afdhere, I think
> you are confusing original sin
> >> with being able to sin. Original sin means we
> inherit the taint and
> >> punishment for a sin committed by others from
> birth and must overcome it.
> >> That is against the Koran. Free choice to sin and
> the expectation of it and
> >> the responsibility for it, still only puts
> punishment on the sinner. That is
> >> different. Eileen > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Afdhere Jama > To:
> >> [email protected] > Sent:
> Thursday, February 05, 2004
> >> 9:37 PM > Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] on
> original sin > > > > salam,
> >> > > actually, original sin is as much part of
> islam as it is in christianity.
> >> and in many sense, far more "driven" in islam
> than it is in christiantiy. > >
> >> while christianity blames us for adam, the qur'an
> actually sort of blames all
> >> of mankind. for example, 7:172 of the qur'an
> talks about bring us all from
> >> the future... to bear witness of god's existance
> and oneness. and then in
> >> 33:72, the qur'an talks about mankind choosing
> the responsiblity to choose,
> >> which all of the other creations apparently
> refused. > > also, in the qur'an,
> >> god warned adam and eve not to approach the tree
> or that they would be of the
> >> devil. so the choice was actually all theirs. > >
> that said, traditional
> >> islam teaches that the world is 'transit' and
> that we are here to 'prove'
> >> ourselves to god--- that yes, god is one... that
> yes, we can follow god's
> >> orders, etc. > > yes, we don't walk around saying
> "oh, we are so sinful" ...
> >> and yes, each individual is responsible for their
> actions. this is because
> >> god forgave adam and eve and hence we all have a
> 'second' chance to "prove"
> >> ourselves. > > i think the 'original sin' is more
> of a abrahamic-faith rather
> >> than 'christianity' or 'islam' or whatever. > > >
> > afdhere > > > > > Afdhere
> >> Jama > Editorial Director > HURIYAH Publications
> > S A N F R A N C I S C O >
> >> [email protected] > http://www.huriyahmag.com
> > > >From: "Caridad"
> >> >Reply-To:
> [email protected] >To:
> >> [email protected]
> >Subject: Re:
> >> [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE:
> ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #364 - 9
> >> msgs >Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:49:53 -0500 >
> >Salaam aleikum, > >I'm new here
> >> to some of you and am a returned member for those
> of you who >remember me
> >> from before. I just got back from living in
> Southern Africa (a >fabulous 9
> >> months . . . I so wish I could just settle
> there), so have >returned to the
> >> list. > >I would like to respond to just one
> thing that y2 said: > > > I'm
> >> always reminded of a the 'original sin'. God told
> Adam do not eat >from > >
> >> this tree. God did NOT give Adam a reason like
> the tree is poisoness or >the
> >> > > tree will affect your state of mind...God
> simply gave Adam a direct
> >> order. > > Adam/Eve eventually ate from the tree,
> and that was the original
> >> sin. A > > simple insignificant innocent act of
> eating a fruit. > > > > The
> >> orignal sin was not rape, murder, theft...It was
> disobeying a simple > >
> >> insignificant order from God. But it was more
> than that wasn't it. >
> >> >Charity's comment: > >I wanted to point out that
> original sin is actually a
> >> Christian theological >concept. Muslims believe
> that all people are born with
> >> innate goodness: >Fitrah. This theological
> concept says that ALL people are
> >> born muslim (with >a little 'm': submission to
> the Divine), with the innate
> >> nature to do good >and worship the One God,
> Allah. The theological concept of
> >> original sin >says that ALL people are born with
> this inherited original sin
> >> which >required the 'sacrifice' of Jesus to
> absolve, as well as the idea that
> >> >peoples' inherant nature is to choose to sin.
> There is NO concept of
> >> >original sin in Islam. We 'people' are
> responsible for our own actions, not
> >> >those of Adam, Eve, or any other predecesor. >I
> have to say this difference
> >> is one of the main reasons for my choosing to >be
> a Muslim. For me it makes
> >> alot more sense . . . I like to meet people >and
> give them the benefit of the
> >> doubt. In most cases I find that people >are
> genuine, not out to hurt me or
> >> others consciously, etc. It is more in >tune with
> my innate optimism. With
> >> the idea of original sin, it means that >I would
> meet new people with the
> >> idea that this person's innate choice will >be
> evil, doing bad, trying to
> >> hurt, etc. So for me, the Muslim concept of
> >Fitrah is constantly reinforced
> >> in my contemplation of and experience in
> >Creation. > >I just wanted to make
> >> my voice heard :) he he he, and say hello to some
> of >the familiar faces
> >> here! > >-Charity > >
> >_______________________________________________
> >> >ProgressiveMuslims mailing list
> >[email protected]
> >>
>
>http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims
> > >
> >>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -- > Get some great ideas here for your
> sweetheart on Valentine's Day - and
> >> beyond.
> _______________________________________________
> ProgressiveMuslims
> >> mailing list
> [email protected]
> >>
>
http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims
> 
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html