Re: on original sin

The Christians belief in original sin contrary to Islam, is that unless you are baptized or saved by Jesus you are damned to hell by the sin of Adam and Eve. Islam teaches you will be tempted but unless you do bad and reject God you will be saved.  It is like the difference between having a father who is a drunk and causes you to live in poverty and shame. You suffer the consequence of the father's problem but you are not the one who is a drunk. With original sin, it makes no difference the child is the drunk too until he gets saved. As a catholic growing up I was taught that even innocent babies would not go to Heaven if they died unless they were baptized. I had a miscarriage at home and had my husband of the time, baptize it in the bathroom. I don't think Islam has anything like this concept.Eileen
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Afdhere Jama 
  To: [email protected] 
  Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] on original sin



  salam, sister eileen,

  well in the qur'an, the punishment for adam and eve's sin was that they were put in a world where they had to fight sin all the time. me thinks we all face that punishment, no? and, yes, we are tainted as well. in the qur'an, god threatens adam and eve's descendants, after he forgives them: 

  "We said; 'go from this (garden), surely my guidance will come to you and then whoever follows my guidance neither shall fear nor grief. and as for those who disbelieve and reject my guidance, they are the inmates of the hell-fire; in it they shall abide.'"(qur'an, 2:38-39)

  so, what that says is that anyone who does  not believe in god's guidance (the prophets, books, etc) will face the original sin's forever punishment, not just the immediate punishment alone (which all good and bad humans face.) now how the heck does that differ from christians' belief that those who disbelieve in christ are not saved from the original sin? 

  it is not a matter of being 'able' to sin, it is a matter of cleansing ourselves from a sin... daily. it is what traditional muslims call jihad el nafs or the struggle of the soul-- that constant fight with evil... in us and around us.


  afdhere



  Afdhere Jama 
  Editorial Director 
  HURIYAH Publications 
  S A N F R A N C I S C O 
  [email protected]
  http://www.huriyahmag.com

  >From: "kas2eileen" >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: >Subject: Re: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] on original sin >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:18:08 -0500 > >salaam afdhere, I think you are confusing original sin with being able to sin. Original sin means we inherit the taint and punishment for a sin committed by others from birth and must overcome it. That is against the Koran. Free choice to sin and the expectation of it and the responsibility for it, still only puts punishment on the sinner. That is different. Eileen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Afdhere Jama > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 9:37 PM > Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] on original sin > > > > salam, > > actually, original sin is as much part of islam as it is in christianity. and in many sense, far more "driven" in islam than it is in christiantiy. > > while christianity blames us for adam, the qur'an actually sort of blames all of mankind. for example, 7:172 of the qur'an talks about bring us all from the future... to bear witness of god's existance and oneness. and then in 33:72, the qur'an talks about mankind choosing the responsiblity to choose, which all of the other creations apparently refused. > > also, in the qur'an, god warned adam and eve not to approach the tree or that they would be of the devil. so the choice was actually all theirs. > > that said, traditional islam teaches that the world is 'transit' and that we are here to 'prove' ourselves to god--- that yes, god is one... that yes, we can follow god's orders, etc. > > yes, we don't walk around saying "oh, we are so sinful" ... and yes, each individual is responsible for their actions. this is because god forgave adam and eve and hence we all have a 'second' chance to "prove" ourselves. > > i think the 'original sin' is more of a abrahamic-faith rather than 'christianity' or 'islam' or whatever. > > > > afdhere > > > > > Afdhere Jama > Editorial Director > HURIYAH Publications > S A N F R A N C I S C O > [email protected] > http://www.huriyahmag.com > > >From: "Caridad" >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #364 - 9 msgs >Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:49:53 -0500 > >Salaam aleikum, > >I'm new here to some of you and am a returned member for those of you who >remember me from before. I just got back from living in Southern Africa (a >fabulous 9 months . . . I so wish I could just settle there), so have >returned to the list. > >I would like to respond to just one thing that y2 said: > > > I'm always reminded of a the 'original sin'. God told Adam do not eat >from > > this tree. God did NOT give Adam a reason like the tree is poisoness or >the > > tree will affect your state of mind...God simply gave Adam a direct order. > > Adam/Eve eventually ate from the tree, and that was the original sin. A > > simple insignificant innocent act of eating a fruit. > > > > The orignal sin was not rape, murder, theft...It was disobeying a simple > > insignificant order from God. But it was more than that wasn't it. > >Charity's comment: > >I wanted to point out that original sin is actually a Christian theological >concept. Muslims believe that all people are born with innate goodness: >Fitrah. This theological concept says that ALL people are born muslim (with >a little 'm': submission to the Divine), with the innate nature to do good >and worship the One God, Allah. The theological concept of original sin >says that ALL people are born with this inherited original sin which >required the 'sacrifice' of Jesus to absolve, as well as the idea that >peoples' inherant nature is to choose to sin. There is NO concept of >original sin in Islam. We 'people' are responsible for our own actions, not >those of Adam, Eve, or any other predecesor. >I have to say this difference is one of the main reasons for my choosing to >be a Muslim. For me it makes alot more sense . . . I like to meet people >and give them the benefit of the doubt. In most cases I find that people >are genuine, not out to hurt me or others consciously, etc. It is more in >tune with my innate optimism. With the idea of original sin, it means that >I would meet new people with the idea that this person's innate choice will >be evil, doing bad, trying to hurt, etc. So for me, the Muslim concept of >Fitrah is constantly reinforced in my contemplation of and experience in >Creation. > >I just wanted to make my voice heard :) he he he, and say hello to some of >the familiar faces here! > >-Charity > > >_______________________________________________ >ProgressiveMuslims mailing list >[email protected] >http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get some great ideas here for your sweetheart on Valentine's Day - and beyond. _______________________________________________ ProgressiveMuslims mailing list [email protected] http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims 


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