RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #378 - 6 msgs

Salaams,

I don't want to really start a big thing on homosexuality here, but I figure
I'll just toss in my 2 cents in there.  I don't really have an opinion on
it, but I'm generally in disagreement with the arguments used in the
discussion.  While theres very little in the koran about it apart from a few
versus about Lot, the koran constantly speaks of the marriage between a man
and a woman.  That could be because God is just using that as a reference
for the time, or it could be that its so unspeakable God does not waste
his/her/it (I'll just use his from now now) breath on it...thinking he dealt
with in in Lot.  In either case just because something is not forbidden
expllicitly does not mean it should be done.  The entire message must be
taken into account ALL the time...not just for one's own purposes.  There's
also teh issue of Muslims early sexual freedom (Ottoman empire...) which
makes modern day sexuality seem conservative.  In either case, what they did
back then could have just been wrong, or maybe they were onto something.

No doubt I'm sure some people are born with a tendancy to be attracted to
the same sex.  Others simply make the choice.  People are born with
tendacies all the time. That doesn't neccessarily mean they should simply
embrace it.  I'm sure there are people who have a tendancy to be genuinly
depressed simply due to a genetic disorder (they cannot product the happy
chemicals in the brain).  Others are depressed for reasons of their
own/environment's making.  In either case, one should seek treatment for
that.  The notion that just because we are born with it or that it is found
in nature is reason enough to accept it is not sufficient to allow it.  Male
lions for example kill the offspring of other males when they take over a
pride.  This of course would be a crime of immeasurable proportion in
humanity.  But it is perfectly natural.

There also lies the question of punishment.  If it is a sin, is it
punishable on Earth, or is left only to be judged by God.  If its not
punishable on earth, that does not mean its not accountable to God.  Theres
also the severity aspect.  How severe is it?

As to be heing open-minded.  Well that just another overused word.  To be
open minded, should mean to think that its possible homosexuality is
acceptable with Islam, but the possiblity that it is a great sin that will
send one to hell should also be there.  Progressiveness and open-mindedness
are on completele different axis.
As to the sex sites/pornography associated with AL-fatiha, well therein lies
another problem.  Rarely are things so nice that we can simply discuss
homosexuality.  If the idea of a homosexual woman who does not commit
adultery before marriage, dresses modestly, prays 5 times a day, and
supports the Palestinians right to resist, then the discussion is lost.

> As-salaam alaikum wa rahmatolahi wabarakato!
>
> Faisal, I am pleased to read your message to this group, and my =
> immediate reaction was that these conferences must be a good
> thing. =20
>
> I have to apologize for being so ingorant of this topic, and
> I am also =
> new to this group and this way of approaching Islam.  Here in
> Norway, =
> the sort of Islam that is practiced is very much colored by
> the strict =
> salafism, with only the narrow way to salvation.  Or the madhabs.  I =
> have for the last years felt some sort of breathing problems
> among the =
> muslims here.  Reality is just not as they want it to be.
> What about =
> islamic practices, when the map does not fit the landscape? =20
>
> I see myself as an open minded person, and I have often
> wondered about =
> the case with homosexuals in Islam.  I believe that it is definitely =
> possible to be born a gay or a lesbian.  So it should be a part of =
> Allahs creation.  The official standpoint to Islam, is that =
> homosexuality is a grave sin.  I have missed convincing
> sources to this =
> argument (tell me if they exist), but I am not a scholar, so
> I respect =
> the official standpoint with some doubts.  I suppouse my
> standpoint is =
> something like:  We all come to this world with challenges to
> solve.  We =
> have to find ways of living with it.  In my opinion it is rarely =
> something is purely wrong or purely right.  Most of lifes choices is =
> something in between.  I think one of the challenges about being a =
> homosexual, is the curse they get from the rest of society.  And the =
> fact that this is something that (at least in Norway) one
> does not talk =
> to others about, especially in the mosc. =20
>
> However, there seems to be some prejudices, and I have to say that =
> taking a look at the discussion group for Fatiha at yahoogroups, it =
> shocked me.  While I can accept and respect two people from
> the same sex =
> living together as married people, I still think that Islam
> has given us =
> someguidelines to life that we have to fulfill.  I do believe that =
> pornography is against Islam and can cause harm.  i believe that =
> changing sex partners often, for the sake of sex, is haram,
> no matter if =
> you are a gay or a heterosexual.  However, the emailgroup did
> not leave =
> me with a feeling that this is decency, with all the messages =
> advertising for sex sites.  What is al Fatihas official stand point =
> about this?  When they have the aim of enpowering and
> enstrengthening =
> the muslim homosexuals, does that mean that they are enstrengthening =
> their imam and how to live with oneself?  Or are they trying
> to proove =
> that it is completely halal to be a homosexual?  If so, what
> is their =
> sources?
>
> Does Al-Fatiha have an official web site so that I can read
> more about =
> this organisation?
>
> Excuse me again, if you feel that I have some prejudices.  If
> I don=E6t =
> show them up, they can never be changed. =20
>
> Wa alaikum salaam
> Chahida
> --