Re: on original sin

Salaams Na'eem,

I sure wouldn't force a fit between these two religious concepts/rituals. I 
can see the limits in comparison that you point out and I don't dispute 
them. (I guess I didn't select my words as carefully as I tried to 
originally to communicate that harmony in our understandings.)

Maybe it's just an anecdotal inconsistentcy, a creative memory exercise, or 
just a misunderstanding of my faith but one thing I do want to point out 
(again, IF memory serves me) is that for some muslims, shahadah IS a 
discreet ritual . . . a parent wispering in a child's ear early after birth 
or a person of the age of consent declaring it with a witness (usually an 
imam I assume). I think also that some Christians would argue for adult 
baptisms because of the age of consent issue as well . . . or at least they 
allow a child/adolescent/adult to come forward on there own . . . kind of 
like a personal stirring of the free conscience. I remember this from when 
I was younger and black Baptists, kids and others, would talk about 
baptism. See the sites below for more info.

<http://www.baptiststart.com/baptism_quotes.htm>
<http://www.biblehistory.com/Baptism,%20Baptist.html>
<http://www.corobaptist.org.au/articles/html/baptist_baptism.html>

I hope I chose those words carefully enough to make clear that I'm not 
asserting that they are the same, baptism and shahadah, rather that there 
is some overlap much like the cross as a symbol on the one hand in 
comparison to the star and crescent moon on the other . . . not the same 
but they might be stored in the same or near places in some of our minds 
because these two serve arguably similar purposes/functions as symbols of 
the two faiths, Christianity and Islam respectively.

Much thanks for your clarification,
Moo :)

--On Sunday, February 08, 2004 12:42 PM +0200 na'eem jeenah 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> salaam
>
> shahadah and baptism are not analogous. shahadah is not a ritual, it is
> a personal affirmation. and no matter how many times a child might
> say the kalimah, her/his shahadah actually only makes once s/he is an
> adult and is discerning. baptism (from my little understanding of it) 0f
> a  child is not a personal commitment and affirmation, it is something
> done TO the child
>
> na'eem
>
> On 6 Feb 2004 at 17:41, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I would agree that shahadah and baptism are analogous . . . if it's
> > agreed that the similarity is that they both have a function roughly
> > of being an official ritual that makes one's introduction into her
> > faith.
>
>
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