RE: RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #397 - 14 msgs

salam, yameen,

maybe you don't know but bosnian muslims took part in the holocaust.

and almost 80% of arabs in america are christian. and most indians are not muslim. and most blacks are not muslim :)

as for judaism, you can't compare it with islam or christianity. it is thousands of years older. that said, there are many, many muslims out there who are "culturally muslim" -- sometimes some of these "culturally muslims" are atheists. also, in places like spain and morroco, there are moorish-christians (or moors who have culturally been muslim but are now christian.)

in judaism, unless you profess another faith in another god (i.e, jesus or allah or whatever,) you are jewish. so, like the muslim atheists, the atheist jews are not considered non-jewish. but certainly, for jews, when you become a "jew for allah" or a "jew for christ," you ceaze to be jewish.

on a side note, jewish attitude to non-jewish-jews and muslim attitude to non-muslim-muslims are totally different. of course we are talking about in religious area. amongst most of the muslims, a muslim who leaves islam is supposed to be killed (per hadithi law.. called "irtidad"/apostasy.) in judaism, an atheist jew is quite accepted. this is perhaps because most jews are not orthodox... and rely less on the jewish texts of yore. whatever the case, that is a reality.

in 2000, the world was shocked when a somali muslim who converted to christianity was sentenced to death in yemen. and in 1998, a muslim who converted to baha'i faith in iran was sentenced and executed. in 2002, a pakistani who converted to christianity was sentenced to death. (there are many, many other cases, as well, but not as famous.)

the point is, jewish nuts have been very small. and certainly never could afford state to carry out their extremist beliefs about apostasy. so, jewish umbrella for non-believing jews was more tolerated.

afdhere

Afdhere Jama
Editorial Director
HURIYAH Publications
S A N F R A N C I S C O
[email protected]
http://www.huriyahmag.com

>From: "y2" >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: >Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #397 - 14 msgs >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:29:30 -0500 > >Salaams inas, > >First the Jewish thing. I do not confuse Jewish ethnicity with religion, >but some one somewhere decided to use the same word for them both, so I can >understand why its a confusing matter. The Jewish religion itself also >blends this ethnicity and religion concept. For example, if your mother is >Jewish, you are technically Jewish regarldess of what GOD you believe in if >any. If only your father is Jewish, then ur not technically Jewish >irrespecitve of your beliefs. This is NOT my choice to identify this mixing >of ethnicity and reli
gion, it is the decision of Jewish people and religion. >By all means there are differences in the degree to which this is true >between conservatinve/reform Jews...But it is a part of the faith of Judaism >which blends the ethnicity. So NO, I 'do not do' the same thing. > >Besides that, this is less about blanket 'sterio-type' statements than it is >about mere falsehoods. I have little problem with stereotypes as long as >they're resonably accurate and in context. > >Its like the groups "Jews for christ" or whatever their name is. To some >Jews this group is an abomination because it implies you can be both Jewish >and Christian. Which is true if you think of being Jewish as an ethnicity. >But if you take the Jewish perspective that being Jewish is both an >ethnicity and a religion then of course its an abomination. > >By all means, I would
say lets have different words for them, but >unfortunately, I don't think Jews would want that. > >THe same is NOT true of say Muslims or Christians, where ethnicity has >NOTHING to do with religion. Religion is by belief alone. You could be >born to a family of mullahs along the descent line of Prohphent Muhammed >(pbuh) for all good that would do...but the second you do not believe in >GOD, you're not a muslim. > >As to under the table racism. Its racism without actually using derogatory >terms, but more often than not implying as such. > >Consider teh statement in question, which compared black peoples voting >habits to the voting habits of muslims. This implies that blacks and >muslims are 2 separate groups. Which of course is totally false. I wonder >what percentage of Indians in the United states is Muslims? Or even the >percentage
of arabs in the United States is muslim? > >Also statements like 'Muslims were complacent in the Holocaust' or something >like that. Casting Muslims as an all encompassing race of people. Indians, >arabs...many groups fought on the allied side of the war. ALl this because a >few muslims, I.E the muslim mufti of Palestine went to Gernmany as a Guest >of Hitler and I'm sure had some people on his 'side'. But this is no big >deal. Several western dignataries were Hitlers guest. Jews also served in >Gernmany's navy and what not. The catholic church also had issues with >Germany...Yet, do we hear similar complaints about said groups? Nope. > >Eduation is all that's needed. I don't care if I'm offended by someone who >simply does not know. I didn't care about the guy who said all Indians are >Hindus. He knew no better and I was a friend of his at work.
It surprised >me but that is all. I was offended most certainly by afdhere who is a >muslim and an editor and I would think knows the difference, but decided to >go ahead a say the false statement anyways perpetuating several myths and >falsehoods. > >Yameen > > > > > Message: 3 > > From: "inas younis" > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] RE: > > ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #396 - 4 > > msgs > > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 06:31:37 -0600 > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > >

> >

I am sorry coud you please clarify what you mean by " > > Under the table racism" and also what do you mean when you > > say that.. unlike jews, we dont have a > > blurring between ethnicity and religion.
> >

Why is it offensive that people require > > clarification when making religious and ethnic > > distinctions. Isnt it all part of the education process > > for people to ask, in order to remedy thier ignorance. > > I think you should welcome such inquires and use them as an > > opportunity to make clarifications. After all, it is > > not unreasonable for people to make blanket assumptions or > > use stereotypes to facilitate thier understanding of an > > increasingly complex world. But how can they or > > we for that matter become educated, if we are so darn > > concious about not offending people like you.
> >

And furthermore, did you not just do the same thing that > > you are complaining about, by assuming that all jews are > > blurred with respect to ethnic and religious distinctions
> > >_______________________________________________ >ProgressiveMuslims mailing list >[email protected] >http://willo.nitric.co.za/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progressivemuslims

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