RE: Dutch debate on mosque closing

Salaams on this Friday all!

Afdhere, it's a tricky position. My gut reaction is that the Imam and the=
 book
are out of line and deserve sanction.

I definitely don't want to be unfair about this kind of thing when it com=
es to
other groups who do the same and I also think that the worst thing that c=
ould
happen would be to ban the books. But I do think it deserves more than ju=
st
"it's everywhere" dismissal. Maybe not "we kick you out because your
books/ideas are terrible" but something like "your mosque leader deserves=
 a
rebuke for peddling books that incite violence against people". That's lo=
gicaly
weak too I think but I was thinking along the (kinda dubious) lines of Al
Capone being run in on tax evasion or a Klan group here in the midwest be=
ing
sued out of existance via civil infractions 9around hate speech) and dama=
ges
recouped thereoff. Maybe it's not a state issue in so much as they should=
 just
keep an eye on things but that a 3rd party (say, other muslims and/or com=
munity
members) should/are standing up to counter the kinds of messages that are=
 being
comuncated in that masjid.

I just read in the NYTimes about another cleric ejected from France and t=
hings
are chaffing in England as well. I think the author of one of the books (=
or a
elated one) was under fire in Spain recently too.

For people in the states and other countries not experiencing this kind o=
f
friction publically, are we behind the curve? Are our societies better ab=
le to
acommodate situations that seem on their face to parallel these so that't=
s why
we aren't also grappling with them? Am I missing something about my own
society?

I'm scratchig my head because I don't know how I'd respond if this was ha=
ppening
locally . . . I feel divided as a muslim and also as a national of the Un=
ited
States. It doesn't seem to me so simple that this guy's out of the mainst=
ream
so I could argue "Well, most of us don't believe that stuff, we're a very
egalitarian religion in principle and practice." It's like I'm starting t=
o
understand the critique of the Muslim apologist and it really bugs me bec=
ause
it seems to ring hollow.

Any thoughts. suggestions, or council?

Enjoy jumah (those who are attending),
Mudhillun

Quoting Afdhere Jama <[email protected]>:

>=20
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> salam,
>=20
> you have to copy the whole link:
>=20
>
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=3D19&story_=
id=3D6851
>=20
> ok, this is my take on the thing. while i'm against all forms or oppres=
sion,
>=20
> i don't understand why the sister wants the mosque closed. these are th=
e=20
> beliefs of many, many muslims. what is next... she is going to ask for =
the=20
> hadiths to be banned? the book in question, like thousands published ea=
ch=20
> year, is nothing but 'adkaar' or something to help people *remember* th=
e=20
> "teachings" of islam. literally, they just republish parts in the hadit=
hs.
>=20
> that said, there are conservative jewish and christian places that teac=
h=20
> things that are against the dutch laws... and they are left alone becau=
se=20
> the things are in the bible. is she going to ask those to be closed too=
?
>=20
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> Afdhere Jama
> Editorial Director
> HURIYAH Publications
> PO BOX 423343
> San Francisco, CA 94142
> tel: [1] 415.517.0055
> e-mail: [email protected]
> website: http://www.huriyahmag.com
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >From: "Kate Ahmad" <[email protected]>
> >Reply-To: Muslim community debate and=20
> >discussion<[email protected]>
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Dutch debate on mosque closin=
g
> >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:36:10 +1000
> >
> >
> >Salaam Moo,
> >I really wanted to read this, but the link didn't work...  Not sure if=
 its=20
> >just me or not, could you send it again if you have a chance?
> >Thanks!
> >
> >aisha
> >
> >>From: [email protected]
> >>Reply-To: Muslim community debate and=20
> >>discussion<[email protected]>
> >>To: [email protected]
> >>Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Dutch debate on mosque closing
> >>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:05:18 -0400
> >>
> >>
> >>Assalaamu Alaykuwn 'Todos!'
> >>
> >>I hope all are well and enjoying the seasonal shifts in your necks of=
 the=20
> >>woods. (In MI, we just had taste of summer then snow flurries yesterd=
ay=20
> >>and it's supposed to be in the 70's Friday.)
> >>
> >>Anywho, I came across the story below and thought it might be worth=20
> >>sharing with others in the group. Have people heard of these books, "=
The=20
> >>Way of the Muslim" and "Fatwas for Muslim Women"? Followed the dutch=20
> >>story?
> >>
> >>Moo  :)
> >>
> >>"Hirsi Ali: shut anti-woman, anti-gay Dutch mosque"
> >>Expatica Magazine
> >>22 April 2004
> >>
> >>AMSTERDAM ? Somali-born MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali demanded on Thursday the=20
> >>closure of an Amsterdam mosque that sells books supporting female=20
> >>circumcision, beating wives and the murder of gay people.
> >>
> >>
> >><http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=3D19&s=
tory_id=3D
> >>6851>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
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ims
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