RE: Dutch debate on mosque closing

salam, brother moo,

it is not a matter of feeling divided, it is a matter of fairness. i think 
what is in those books are horrible. but then again, i think parts of the 
hadiths, the talmuds, the works of the saint, etc, are horrible. if we are 
going to ban one, we should ban all of them.

you see, hirsi has a personal agenda :) all of her male family/relatives 
have turned to wahabbism. as someone whose some of his family did the same, 
and some of his people in general, i understand her frustrations. but it is 
a far cry from fairness or equality... in the way she is doing.

i'm a muslim and i do not believe in any of those crap those imams are 
preaching. i believe in the complete legal fairness to women. but when it 
comes to all the whackos, i'm fair to all of them-- muslim and otherwise.


afdhere

Afdhere Jama
Editorial Director
HURIYAH Publications
PO BOX 423343
San Francisco, CA 94142
tel: [1] 415.517.0055
e-mail: [email protected]
website: http://www.huriyahmag.com




>From: [email protected]
>Reply-To: Muslim community debate and 
>discussion<[email protected]>
>To: Muslim community debate and 
>discussion<[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Dutch debate on mosque closing
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:33:57 -0400
>
>Salaams on this Friday all!
>
>Afdhere, it's a tricky position. My gut reaction is that the Imam and the 
>book
>are out of line and deserve sanction.
>
>I definitely don't want to be unfair about this kind of thing when it comes 
>to
>other groups who do the same and I also think that the worst thing that 
>could
>happen would be to ban the books. But I do think it deserves more than just
>"it's everywhere" dismissal. Maybe not "we kick you out because your
>books/ideas are terrible" but something like "your mosque leader deserves a
>rebuke for peddling books that incite violence against people". That's 
>logicaly
>weak too I think but I was thinking along the (kinda dubious) lines of Al
>Capone being run in on tax evasion or a Klan group here in the midwest 
>being
>sued out of existance via civil infractions 9around hate speech) and 
>damages
>recouped thereoff. Maybe it's not a state issue in so much as they should 
>just
>keep an eye on things but that a 3rd party (say, other muslims and/or 
>community
>members) should/are standing up to counter the kinds of messages that are 
>being
>comuncated in that masjid.
>
>I just read in the NYTimes about another cleric ejected from France and 
>things
>are chaffing in England as well. I think the author of one of the books (or 
>a
>elated one) was under fire in Spain recently too.
>
>For people in the states and other countries not experiencing this kind of
>friction publically, are we behind the curve? Are our societies better able 
>to
>acommodate situations that seem on their face to parallel these so that'ts 
>why
>we aren't also grappling with them? Am I missing something about my own
>society?
>
>I'm scratchig my head because I don't know how I'd respond if this was 
>happening
>locally . . . I feel divided as a muslim and also as a national of the 
>United
>States. It doesn't seem to me so simple that this guy's out of the 
>mainstream
>so I could argue "Well, most of us don't believe that stuff, we're a very
>egalitarian religion in principle and practice." It's like I'm starting to
>understand the critique of the Muslim apologist and it really bugs me 
>because
>it seems to ring hollow.
>
>Any thoughts. suggestions, or council?
>
>Enjoy jumah (those who are attending),
>Mudhillun
>
>Quoting Afdhere Jama <[email protected]>:
>
> >
> >
> > salam,
> >
> > you have to copy the whole link:
> >
> >
>http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=6851
> >
> > ok, this is my take on the thing. while i'm against all forms or 
>oppression,
> >
> > i don't understand why the sister wants the mosque closed. these are the
> > beliefs of many, many muslims. what is next... she is going to ask for 
>the
> > hadiths to be banned? the book in question, like thousands published 
>each
> > year, is nothing but 'adkaar' or something to help people *remember* the
> > "teachings" of islam. literally, they just republish parts in the 
>hadiths.
> >
> > that said, there are conservative jewish and christian places that teach
> > things that are against the dutch laws... and they are left alone 
>because
> > the things are in the bible. is she going to ask those to be closed too?
> >
> >
> > Afdhere Jama
> > Editorial Director
> > HURIYAH Publications
> > PO BOX 423343
> > San Francisco, CA 94142
> > tel: [1] 415.517.0055
> > e-mail: [email protected]
> > website: http://www.huriyahmag.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Kate Ahmad" <[email protected]>
> > >Reply-To: Muslim community debate and
> > >discussion<[email protected]>
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: RE: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Dutch debate on mosque closing
> > >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:36:10 +1000
> > >
> > >
> > >Salaam Moo,
> > >I really wanted to read this, but the link didn't work...  Not sure if 
>its
> > >just me or not, could you send it again if you have a chance?
> > >Thanks!
> > >
> > >aisha
> > >
> > >>From: [email protected]
> > >>Reply-To: Muslim community debate and
> > >>discussion<[email protected]>
> > >>To: [email protected]
> > >>Subject: [Progressivemuslimsnetwork] Dutch debate on mosque closing
> > >>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:05:18 -0400
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Assalaamu Alaykuwn 'Todos!'
> > >>
> > >>I hope all are well and enjoying the seasonal shifts in your necks of 
>the
> > >>woods. (In MI, we just had taste of summer then snow flurries 
>yesterday
> > >>and it's supposed to be in the 70's Friday.)
> > >>
> > >>Anywho, I came across the story below and thought it might be worth
> > >>sharing with others in the group. Have people heard of these books, 
>"The
> > >>Way of the Muslim" and "Fatwas for Muslim Women"? Followed the dutch
> > >>story?
> > >>
> > >>Moo  :)
> > >>
> > >>"Hirsi Ali: shut anti-woman, anti-gay Dutch mosque"
> > >>Expatica Magazine
> > >>22 April 2004
> > >>
> > >>AMSTERDAM ? Somali-born MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali demanded on Thursday the
> > >>closure of an Amsterdam mosque that sells books supporting female
> > >>circumcision, beating wives and the murder of gay people.
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
> >><http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=
> > >>6851>
> > >>
> > >>
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