CryoNet #31832 - #31835
CryoNet <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.culture.science.cryogenics |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
CryoNet - Fri 31 Jul 2009
#31832: #31830: [Robert Newport]
#31833: Flav, you are a jerk [Rudi Hoffman]
#31834: "That's Incredible" program on "Eternal Life"-- also Parabios... [RAMole]
#31835: Jerk this, Rudi [FlavO Noid]
Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=31832%2D31835
Administrivia
To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to:
[email protected]
with the subject line (not message _body_):
subscribe
To unsubscribe, use the subject line:
unsubscribe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #31832
From: "Robert Newport" <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: #31830:
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:59:45 -0700
Whatever evils maybe seen in the proposed health bill, the history of
"Corporate Medicine" has been one of tragedy, bankruptcy and death, for many
individuals, and financial disaster for doctors and for American Businesses
who bear an unwarranted albatross on their bottom line. The Governments
role, has not helped and has certainly complicated the financial aspects
despite our good intentions. In my opinion, it is the existence of and
popular acceptance of, the health care insurance industry which has been
behind these unintended consequences. Insurance, must exist to spread risk.
(it also has a function of forcing savings, but that is not relevant to this
debate) Risk, to be spread over many, has to be un-equal, and in the case of
our health care needs, measured over the course of an entire, birth-to-death
life time, it isn't. It may be un-equal, when measured against any one
period of life, say childhood versus elderhood, or when separating out,
known life-style, or genetic factors, but that (which is the practice of and
indeed the very business model for private insurance) then leaves the high
risk population, uninsurable (privately). If, and we may debate this issue
at length, we as a society, declare that medical care is a right of
citizenship, or a birthright, (which we seem to have done) then the private
insurance industry not only has no useful function, but also in
counter-productive, adding layers of cost and regulation to the system. I
am, after much experience as both a private and public physician, convinced
that a combination of socialized and private medicine can exist, can be
created to not thwart innovation and invention, as is threatened by those
who are invested in the corporate system, if the entire concept of private
health care insurance is eliminated. People who can afford to do so, will
buy private care from doctors and hospitals, who wishing to take the risks,
sell it to them, and everyone else can use the system, that their taxes pay
for. This will truly spread the risk, and eliminate the draining of
corporate profits from the system.
A lot has been made of the "people will use more than they need if it is
free" idea. Namely, that it will drive up costs. This is as wrong as it can
get. It will drive down costs. Health care costs more, much more, when it is
delivered late in the course of illness rather than early. "An ounce of
prevention is worth a pound of cure" is the relevant wisdom. Thank you,
Robert Newport M.D.
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=31832
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #31833
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:28:02 -0400
Subject: Flav, you are a jerk
From: Rudi Hoffman <[email protected]>
--0016369891d5a7323f046feec9e2
Ok "Flav", you anonymous little weasel, I am not going to ignore the way I
normally ignore gnats and other pests.
Your negativity, and bewildering efforts to annoy, are going to generate a
simple, and pithy, response.
And, no, I am not going to change my signature line and affiliations to suit
you. And, I suggested that people pull the actual bill up to correlate
with the copied information about the bill. Have you done this?
Laws criminalizing extra health care that people may choose to engage in are
certainly relevant in this venue.
No? Well, I assume you may already be on numerous government dole programs,
and think they are a great idea. How many people do you serve by what you
do for a living? Could you provide YOUR affiliations? Exactly WHO are
you? How much taxes did you personally pay last year? Do you actually
have a job or career? Do you live with your momma?
So, kiss my ass, Flav. You are a strange combination of highly intelligent
and clearly somewhat educated human with personality quirks that are obvious
to cryonet readers. I am not going to get in spam war or clutter up cryonet
in a fruitless dialogue with you, "Flav." While I doubt you have better
things to do with the limited time we have, I certainly do.
To the rest of the cryonet world. I apologize in advance for responding to
this person...my emails to him personally have been ignored...he doesn't
want to dialogue. Just demonize me, for some personal and genuinely unknown
reason of his own...and I promise I will revert to the policy most of us
have agreed to and ignore him in the future.
Rudi
--
Rudi Richard Hoffman CFP CLU ChFC
World's Leading Cryonics Insuror rudihoffman.com
Former Board Member Financial Planning Association fpafla.com
Board Member Salvation Army salvationarmy.org
Member Alcor Life Extension Foundation alcor.org,
Member Cryonics Institute cryonics.org
Certified Financial Planner(TM) CFP Board of Standards
Member World Transhumanist Association http://transhumanism.org/
--0016369891d5a7323f046feec9e2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ]
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=31833
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #31834
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:13:11 EDT
Subject: "That's Incredible" program on "Eternal Life"-- also Parabios...
The program was reasonably accurate and pro-science.
On Cryonics they showed Alcor and explained things reasonably well. John
Rennie, Editor in Chief of Scientific American, said it was a last-ditch
insurance policy, and Aubrey DeGrey says they can't revive you yet, but he pays
a little to a life insurance company each month so if he deanimates
suddenly he'll be covered for cryo. Someone else calls it a sci-fi pipe dream,
but the narrator says that's what they called heart transplants too. Then it
launches into transplants and organ growth.
It was very encouraging that Scientific American was positive. Just a
couple of years ago their Skeptic, Micheal Shermer, said you could freeze tissue
but upon thawing it would be "hamburger". (Thus apparently denying the
successes of cryobiology, which nobody else ever doubted.)
I've previously discussed parabiosis here, connecting the circulatory
systems of two rats, young and old, as was done in the 60's. (The older rat then
lived longer.) The program makes no mention of that, but does show Dr.
Thomas Rando of Stanford, who did it with two mice in 2007, and found damage
repaired faster in the old mouse (cuts healed faster etc.) It's interesting
someone is still working on it. They hypothesize there is some single
"youth" ingredient. That was hypothesized long ago, that some small molecule
mediated "age" and if we could find it and synthesize it we could make a
fountain-of-youth drug.
Alan Mole
**************Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to
School
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223105306x1201716871/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D9)
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ]
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=31834
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #31835
From: "FlavO Noid" <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:59:12 -0500
Subject: Jerk this, Rudi
--_----------=_1249023552258280
Content-Disposition: inline
Thank you for the name-calling. It tells everyone just what kind of
person you are; saves me the trouble of pointing it out.
Thank you for making it easier on me by promising to ignore me in the
future. Flame wars are not high on my to-do list.
This is a public forum. I have no obligation to answer you in private or
to follow your orders to hunt for a website. However, you did ask what I
found when I pulled "the actual bill up". You can ignore it, but others
may benefit from some observations.
Here is a link to the actual Health Care Bill, which you were not
thoughtful enough to provide (because you really hoped no one would look
at it but would gullibly believe the spam message?):
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf (warning: PDF
download, takes bandwidth)
Now to the document Rudi supports and defends, quoted parts of it in
brackets [ ].
[I know you've all heard lots about Yobama's health care plan.]
This derogatory presentation of President Obama's last name gives us a
pretty good idea of the rightwing fanatical mindset of whoever compiled
this list of items supposedly in the Health Care Plan, but I'll go on to
look at a few:
[Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS
that self insure!!]
No it doesn't. It mandates that the Govt will study both the "large
group insured and self-insured markets" for a report to Congress to
ensure that the new law is working right. The word "audit" is not to be
found on this page.
[Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides
what
treatments/benefits you get]
Wrong. The committee mentioned on that page is a "private-public
advisory committee" to "recommend covered benefits"
[Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!! You can
only get so much "care" per year]
Totally false. This page has to do with the annual limitation on "cost
sharing". On page 27 it states the bill "does not impose any annual or
lifetime limit on the coverage of covered health care items and
services".
[PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US
citizens,
illegal or otherwise]
Not a word about citizenship on this page.
[Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances &
a
National ID Healthcard will be issued!]
I don't know of any health benefit plan that does not issue an
identification card you can present to prove your enrolment in it! The
claim that the "Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances"
is false. On this page it says "enable the real-time ... determination
of an individual's financial responsibility at the point of service ...";
in other words, what the plan member is responsible to pay. Nothing to
do with their personal finances.
[Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access 2 your banks
accts
for elective funds transfer]
Wrong again. Nothing about "your bank accts for elective funds
transfer". It's about enabling "electronic funds transfers, in order to
allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and
remittance advice" which obviously has nothing to do with personal bank
accounts.
That's all I have time to bother with. Rudi told me I have to kiss his
ass so I have to catch a plane to Florida soon. I work for the "Govt"
and will be checking his accounts to see if he can be financially
responsible for such service. It's a rather pricey one.
Flav
No Name
No Organizations
No Braggadocio
--
An Excellent Credit Score is 750
See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
at Freecreditreport.com
--_----------=_1249023552258280
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ]
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=31835
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of CryoNet Digest
*********************