CryoNet #31974 - #31976

CryoNet - Wed 16 Sep 2009

    #31974: CAS physics [Alexei Potapov]
    #31975: CAS physics [Brian Wowk]
    #31976: CAS Politics [FlavO Noid]

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Message #31974
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:32:44 +0400
Subject: CAS physics
From: Alexei Potapov <[email protected]>

I think patents content does not provide physical basis of events.

i think here's at least 3 different topics, dear physicists here,
please prove me i'm wrong =)

I) Overcooling of H20 liquid in electrical field.

1) Rotating molecules cannot form ice crystal .
2) Water molecule is an electricaly polarised molecule and can
interact with electrical field.
3) Rotation of molecule can happen in rotating or alternative electrical field.
4) Rotating molecule provoques much less "heating" (or molecules
strikes) then brownian motion.
5) It's possible to lower water temperature - "brownian motion" under
the crystalisation point temperature
(and making constant 2 others types of heat transfer - radiation an
convection and conditions like
pressure) by rotating molecule in other words :  to brake H2O crystal
bonds by rotating molecules with small
water "heating"?
II) Elecrical field and crystal form.
1) is there's difference btw water frozen on its place VS water formed
in crystal.
2) Is it enough freesing speed to freeze water molecules in it's places ?

III) Volume of solid H2O states.
1) ?

IV) What else?







-- 
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OOIIXII-AAODIAOIICI EOEIEOAIAIEN

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Message #31975
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:56:08 -0700
Subject: CAS physics
From: Brian Wowk <[email protected]>

Alexei Potapov wrote:

> I) Overcooling of H20 liquid in electrical field.

> 1) Rotating molecules cannot form ice crystal .
> 2) Water molecule is an electricaly polarised molecule and can
interact with electrical field.

      Overcooling (supercooling) of solutions exposed to microwaves is
a known phenomenon in cryobiology before the CAS system.  I know of at
least one paper that claims to observe this effect.

      However, did anyone notice that one of the two posters that were
emailed to Jeff Davis recorded the observation that the CAS system did
NOT increase supercooling?  Solutions were measured to freeze (release
latent heat) at the same temperature whether they were exposed to a
magnetic field or not.  If this was a study of the CAS system, then if
the CAS system is not causing water to supercool and it is not causing
water to vitrify (physically impossible at the temperatures used) then
what is it doing?

> II) Elecrical field and crystal form.
> 1) is there's difference btw water frozen on its place VS water formed
in crystal.
> 2) Is it enough freesing speed to freeze water molecules in it's places ?

      Yes, there is a difference between water stopped in place
(vitrified) vs. water that is crystallized into ice.  However it is
physically impossible to vitrify water at the temperatures used by the
CAS system.  The bonds formed between randomly-oriented water
molecules are so weak that they cannot hold at temperatures warmer
than about 140 or 150 Kelvins.  Pure water in bulk can only exist as
ice between 150K and 230 K, or as liquid or ice between 230 K and 273
K.  It cannot be vitrified in that high temperature range.

       It's hard for me to get excited about the cryopreservation
applications of a system with unclear physics and only two scientific
posters (not papers) studying applications on living tissue.

---Brian Wowk

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Message #31976
From: "FlavO Noid" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:15:22 -0500
Subject: CAS Politics

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Dr. Wowk, who should be investigating this field related to
vitrification, seems instead to be trying to pooh-pooh it out of
existence.  Could this be because the company in which he is a lead
executive, has vitrification at its main focus and agenda?  Could it be
that there is therefore bias against any technology that could obsolete
vitrification?

If the answer to the latter question is "no" then let's hear from Wowk
what 21st Century Medicine's scientific findings are regarding CAS, sans
pooh.  Have they even tried it out, or are all of his remarks just
speculation based on ill-applied ideas of physics and, of course,
politics?

Flav

P.S. Hi Rudi, how was the Singularity Conference, have you been
assimilated yet? :)

-- 
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