CryoNet #32092 - #32093

CryoNet - Fri 23 Oct 2009

    #32092: Dangerous Rationalizations [JOSEPH W MORGAN]
    #32093: Sewers and such [Keith Henson]

Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32092%2D32093

Administrivia

To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to:
    [email protected]
with the subject line (not message _body_):
    subscribe
To unsubscribe, use the subject line:
    unsubscribe


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32092
From: "JOSEPH W MORGAN" <[email protected]>
Subject: Dangerous Rationalizations
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:49:24 -0700

Melody Maxim's Dangerous Rationalizations post is right on target.

Larry Johnson's book Frozen raises serious questions about the credibility and competence of Alcor.  These issues need to be addressed, not rationalized or ignored.  Big changes need to be made.

Joseph W. Morgan


 Content-Type: text/html;

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] 

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32092

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #32093
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:33:03 -0700
Subject: Sewers and such
From: Keith Henson <[email protected]>

Melody wrote:

>I don't know Keith Henson, but he seems determined to rationalize practices that, in my opinion, will only cause trouble for the cryonics industry

Sigh,  Let's face facts, cryonics is closer to a hobby than an
industry.  True, it's out of the garage startup stage, but that
doesn't make it an "industry."

> If Keith thinks pouring medical wastes down the city sewer drain is acceptable,

Hey, I *didn't* think it was acceptable.  I added bleach to everything
I poured down the drain till the mortuary staff (who had processed
thousands of HIV victims) said it wasn't needed and they never did it.

> "a ball peen hammer with a wooden handle, something that would be virtually impossible to properly sterilize."

I understand your concerns coming from a medical background.  After
the first LJ event, Alcor bought all stainless surgical tools to work
with suspension patients after perfusion so with respect to Alcor your
concerns are out of date.  I don't think the tools were a marketing
problem for the people who come into cryonics from the nanotechnology
direction unless we find a bug that grows at LN2 temperature.

Re cats, if I had anything to do with it, a cat that chewed on
perfusion tubing would be a former cat.

Re spraying HIV contaminated fluids, been there, done that.  Little
matter of changing the tubing occluders  in the wrong order while dead
tired.  Not a good idea.

snip

> I have my doubts it will be the "flash in the pan" it was, the last time he went to the media,

Except for humor stories connected to Halloween it's gone already.

> so it's time to get serious about making cryonics more respectable.

I have no problem in making the attempt.  The problem is in respect to
what?  CI uses a mortuary model and indeed mortuaries in the field to
prepare patients.  Alcor is more in the medical direction.  But it
should be respectable as cryonics.  No matter what we do an awful high
percentage of the population will be disgusted.  Similar brain
mechanisms to fear of snakes.

There are evolved reasons for this.  Pascal Boyer's book, Religion
Explained brings up some of them.

I think we have to resign ourselves to the fact that cryonics will
never get very large.  The people who are interested in it are out 5-6
sigma.  While it's very possible to argue about the singularity
timing, the consensus is around the mid 2040s.  If that is right, then
unless something were to radically change the growth rate, cryonics
will still be small at the point it becomes obsolete.

Mostly agree with your points though.

Keith

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32093

----------------------------------------------------------------------

End of CryoNet Digest
*********************