CryoNet #32158

CryoNet - Thu 12 Nov 2009

    #32158: Re: CryoNet #32154 - #32157 [David Stodolsky]

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Message #32158
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32154 - #32157
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:10:30 +0100
References: <[email protected]>

On 10 Nov 2009, at 3:44 PM, Mark Plus wrote:

>
> John de Rivaz writes:
>
> >An article in The Guardian, ostensibly about TV personality Clive  
> James' attitude to global warming, has a great deal to say about the  
> failure of cryonics to attract the 30% of the population who tell  
> pollsters that they would be interested.
> >>>
> >In 1973 the cultural anthropologist Ernest Becker proposed that the  
> fear of death drives us to protect ourselves with "vital lies" or  
> "the armour of character".
>
This theory is the basis for my arguments about the futility of  
current marketing efforts. I made the List aware of it several years  
back. Read about it at:

http://www.ernestbecker.org/

Good intro film:

http://flightfromdeath.com/


So, George Monbiot has the right theory, but reaches the wrong  
conclusion, because it is he himself that is deluded and ignoring the  
science:

<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/6494213/Climate-change-belief-given-same-legal-status-as-religion.html 
 >

Climate change belief given same legal status as religion

This comment is also worth a read:

The article below is from the Space special interest group of the high  
IQ society Mensa.
Global Warming on Mars and Climate Change from Space



> If Dickinson is correct, is it fanciful to suppose that those who  
> are closer to the end of their lives might react more strongly  
> against reminders of death? I haven't been able to find any  
> experiments testing this proposition, but it is surely worth  
> investigating

It is well known that the existential crisis occurs in middle age,  
when signs of ageing become obvious.

Probably, he finds that people 60+ skeptical, because that have  
already seen the 'oil crisis', etc. of the 1970's, which also  
predicted "the end of the World as we know it  (TM)" and know this  
sensationalistic nonsense is mostly to sell papers and to allow Big  
Oil to gouge the consumer without encountering much resistance.


> In other words, humans created "self-esteem" as a kind of magical  
> thinking to manage their terror. Self-esteem doesn't sound that far  
> removed mentally from the wearing of talismans to ward off evil.
>
> Self-esteem can generate other problems as well:
>
> The Trouble With Self-Esteem
> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/03/magazine/the-trouble-with-self-esteem.html
>
>  which means concealment, not cockiness, is the real culprit. That  
> makes little sense.

"These findings indicate that romantic secrecy may have harmful  
conseqeunces for both the relationship itself and the health of the  
partners involved."

Lehmiller, JL, Secret romantic relationships: Consequences for  
personal and relational well being.
Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 35(11), Nov.2009, 1452-1466.


So, here we have a half-baked critique of current therapy approaches.  
There is an element of truth in all pop psych. She is right that self- 
esteem can't be a goal in itself, but must function within a system of  
personal meanings. This isn't a argument against TMT or self-esteem as  
a psychological variable.


> I submit that the human population needs less self-esteem
>
Does not follow.


> and other magical thinking about death (e.g., singularitarianism),  
> and more engagement with finding technological solutions to the  
> problem.
>

Right. However, the bio-technology we have right now is not the factor  
preventing the acceptance of cryonics. The limitation is the way  
cryonics is packaged - the social technology. We face a battle between  
differing belief systems - systems of meaning.

We can see this playing out in the anti-abortion movement, which has  
just produced a Congressional  amendment to the proposed healthcare  
reform bill and a domestic terrorist movement responsible for attacks  
on clinics across the Country, resulting in the deaths of doctors and  
property damage. At some point, cryonics will likely face the same  
type of opposition from religious fanatics. Without vastly greater  
numbers, US facilities will not have much of a chance. The only  
question is, will the Movement preempt this reaction or will it wait  
until people are dragged off to jail and until organizations are  
threaten with being regulated out of existence, like it did with the  
question of political action?  Will it wait until safety for  
suspendees can only be achieved by bomb proof structures and 24 hour  
protection by heavily-armed security guards or will it make a vastly  
smaller investment now to circumvent an after-the-fact emergency  
payment, which, in any case, will likely be too-little and too-late to  
save the Movement in the US?


dss

David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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