CryoNet #32185 - #32187

CryoNet - Tue 1 Dec 2009

    #32186: Re: CryoNet #32182 - #32184 [Freeposity]
    #32187: response to Mark Plus [Ettinger]

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Message #32186
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:23:10 -0600
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32182 - #32184
From: Freeposity <[email protected]>

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:00 AM, CryoNet <[email protected]> wrote:
> CryoNet - Mon 30 Nov 2009
> Message #32182
> From: Mark Plus <[email protected]>
> Subject: "What's Really Wrong With Cryonics"
> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 06:28:01 -0800
>
> http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/11/whats_really_wr.html
>
> NOVEMBER 29, 2009
> What's Really Wrong With Cryonics
> Bryan Caplan
>
>
>
>What disturbed me was when I realized how low he set his threshold for success.  Robin didn't care about biological survival.  He >didn't need his brain implanted in a cloned body.  He just wanted his neurons preserved well enough to "upload himself" into a >computer.
>
> To my mind, it was ridiculously easy to prove that "uploading yourself" isn't life extension.  "An upload is merely a simulation.  It wouldn't be you," I remarked.  "It would if the simulation were accurate enough," he told me.
>

It sounds to me that the author is suffering from future shock(SL3 or
SL4)*. With a good enough simulation you wouldn't be able to tell if
you are biological or a computer simulation. Indeed we could all be
simulations now.

Once the technology is perfected it seems to me that a natural
offshoot of cryonics would be perfect digital preservation of the
brain. This would take up less space, cost less and allow for fault
tolerance in the form of multiple backups. With a perfect digital
backup of the brain it should be possible to correct for any damage
done during cryopreservation/death. Then you could have the option of
living in a "virtual world" or having a new body cloned.




*see http://www.sl4.org/shocklevels.html

-- 
Your friendly neighborhood agnostic atheist
and reality based hope monger

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Message #32187
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:38:26 EST
Subject: response to Mark Plus

Mark Plus, if I read his post today (Monday) correctly, has 
some things right and some wrong, all old stuff.
 
 
First, he says that uploading is not survival. I agree, and
I believe I have proven this in my book Youniverse
(latest version 2009, available from Amazon, Barnes
and Noble, and Universal Publishers).
 
 
Second, he seems to say that the probability of success
for cryonics patients is very low. I disagree, and my
reasoning is spelled out in an essay that is available
on the CI web site, cryonics.org. Some of this is
too technical for most readers, but an ordinary
person of reasonable intelligence will find the
essence accessible.
 
 
Third, he seems to say that cryonicists are overly
optimistic. I don't think there are any relevant
statistics available, but my impression is
different. I think the typical member of CI
regards the chance as unknown and perhaps
small, but still worth while because of the
enormous payoff of success.
 
 
Robert Ettinger 


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