CryoNet #32219 - #32223

CryoNet - Wed 16 Dec 2009

    #32219: Re: Grim Story on cryoniucs [John de Rivaz]
    #32220: Group membership essential for health and well-being [David Stodolsky]
    #32221: Re: CryoNet #32213 - #32218 [Freeposity]
    #32222: Thawing cryonauts in "Life After People" [Mark Plus]
    #32223: Re: Grim story on cryonics [David Stodolsky]

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Message #32219
From: "John de Rivaz" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Grim Story on cryoniucs
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:53:18 -0000

Whoever wrote that "grim" story about people revived from cryonics starting wars has probably read all the name calling arguments (instead of debates) on cryonet. A discussion has also arisen about "irrational" "violence".

Some people join particular religions because they feel that someone they know has become a nicer person since they joined. Cryonics isn't a religion, but it has a few things in common. Unlike a religion, cryonics doesn't advise people how to behave, although the thought of an indefinite lifespan can influence behaviour. I am actually concerned that it can also influence behaviour in a negative way, in that it can make people paranoid to the extent of "everyone who doesn't sign up is a fool". As a group we have to survive on a planet where most people accept death, including those who administer civilisation. That is why I found the phrase " living on a planet with six billion suicidal maniacs" in a recent press article so evocative, but obviously confrontational.

"Irrational" in the sense of "without reason" can often mean that the writer or speaker doesn't know the reason. It is a bit like "random" phenomena. Those studying science and mathematics don't know the reason. 

Someone may get violent because he has lost his job or home or whatever, but if those around don't know of his loss, they may well conclude that his violence is without reason. I recall reading some years ago that if there was an atomic war and loads of tank commanders were driving about Europe knowing that they had only days to live because of irreversible radiation damage, they would probably be using their tanks in acts of apparently senseless violence. 

What I do find amazing, in fact, is how few people get violent when their lives are ruined by some consequence of administration, such as the recent failure of the financial system, or the failure of the legal and medical systems to deal with common personal problems. I conclude that the vast majority of people are in fact highly non-violent despite massive provocation. 

I would regard the word "violence" in its broadest sense to include initiating a lawsuit, and yet relatively few are even willing to initiate this highly sanitised form of violence. (Legal action is a bit like dropping a bomb from a plane as opposed to killing someone with a bayonet.)

It is only the very few who commit acts of violence even with a reason that is obvious to anyone in full possession of all the facts. 

Nevertheless I have seen notices in hospitals advising patients that they will be carted off by the police of they get violent, and indeed I have even seen such a notice in a computer shop. It would probably also be worthwhile from someone to study what circumstances get people riled and see if the system of administration can be improved. Some changes would be cheaper than keeping people in prisons for years.

Whether study of neurology will help resolve the problem is obviously open to debate, but on the basis that the problem isn't as widespread as imagined, then I suspect that it will.

-- 
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
more

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Message #32220
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Group membership essential for health and well-being
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:29:14 +0100

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a789110948

Maintaining group memberships: Social identity continuity predicts  
well-being after stroke

A survey study of patients recovering from stroke (N = 53) examined  
the extent to which belonging to multiple groups prior to stroke and  
the maintenance of those group memberships (as measured by the Exeter  
Identity Transitions Scales, EXITS) predicted well-being after stroke.  
Results of correlation analysis showed that life satisfaction was  
associated both with multiple group memberships prior to stroke and  
with the maintenance of group memberships. Path analysis indicated  
that belonging to multiple groups was associated with maintained well- 
being because there was a greater likelihood that some of those  
memberships would be preserved after stroke-related life transition.  
Furthermore, it was found that cognitive failures compromised well- 
being in part because they made it hard for individuals to maintain  
group memberships post-stroke. These findings highlight the importance  
of social identity continuity in facilitating well-being following  
stroke and, more broadly, show the theoretical contribution that a  
social identity approach to mental health can make in the context of  
neuropsychological rehabilitation.



http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121596786/abstract

Social Identity, Health and Well-Being: An Emerging Agenda for Applied  
Psychology

The social environment comprising communities, families,  
neighbourhoods, work teams, and various other forms of social group is  
not simply an external feature of the world that provides a context  
for individual behaviour. Instead these groups impact on the  
psychology of individuals through their capacity to be internalised as  
part of a person's social identity. If groups provide individuals with  
a sense of meaning, purpose, and belonging (i.e. a positive sense of  
social identity) they tend to have positive psychological  
consequences. The impact of these identity processes on health and  
well-being is explored in the contributions to this special issue. In  
this editorial, we discuss these contributions in light of five  
central themes that have emerged from research to date. These themes  
address the relationship between social identity and (a) symptom  
appraisal and response, (b) health-related norms and behaviour, (c)  
social support, (d) coping, and (e) clinical outcomes. The special  
issue as a whole points to the capacity for a social identity approach  
to enrich academic understanding in these areas and to play a key role  
in shaping health-related policy and practice.




dss

David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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Message #32221
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:17:16 -0600
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32213 - #32218
From: Freeposity <[email protected]>

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 4:00 AM, CryoNet <[email protected]> wrote:
> Message #32215
> From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Grim story on cryonics
> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:49:50 +0100
> References: <[email protected]>
>
> On 13 Dec 2009, at 11:00 AM, Luke Parrish wrote:
>>
>>>>> Furthermore, irrational violence is neurological in nature,
>>>
>>>
>>> No. TMT shows this is false. See:
>>>
>>> http://www.ernestbecker.org/
>>>
>>
>> TMT is fascinating, but I do not see how it negates the point that all
>> human behavior, irrational violence included, is neurological in
>> nature.
>> Understanding how neurons fire is going to give future society a heck
>> of a lot more understanding about why people are violent and how to
>> prevent it.
>>
>> I don't see how a literate person could reach any contrary conclusion.
>> TMT is completely irrelevant to my point.
>
> In science, the rule is "Simplicity is more correct," that is, Occam's
> (1285-1349) razor:
>
> "one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of
> entities required to explain anything."
>
> http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/occamraz.html
>
>
> In this case, we do not need a neurological entity to explain
> irrational violence. TMT shows it is resulting from basic human
> intellectual abilities, such as the ability to visualize a future
> event, etc.
>
> You could also say irrational violence is physical in nature,
> therefore, a better understanding of quantum mechanics will allow a
> more peaceful society. Few have embarked on this venture.
>

No, not really. Basic human intellectual abilities are neurological in
nature. There are key structures in the brain that affect all sorts of
human behaviors. There is a drug that is very helpful to people with
parkinson's disease, however with some patients it turns them into
compulsive gamblers. We are ruled by our neurons more than we'd like
to admit. The amount of evidence that supports this is staggering.

I strongly recommend reading, "How We Decide" by Jonah Lehrer. It's a
fascinating read about metacognition and neurology.

In this book the author tells the story of a man who was a teacher and
a family man. A man who was well respected in his community. All of
the sudden he started getting into child porn and admitted himself to
the hospital because of severe headaches and the strong urge to rape
his neighbor. They found a brain tumor that was the cause of this
abborent behavior.

I'd also strongly recommend going to any lecture by Lehrer. He's a
great speaker, I could listen to him speak for hours.




-- 
Your friendly neighborhood agnostic atheist
and reality based hope monger

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Message #32222
From: Mark Plus <[email protected]>
Subject: Thawing cryonauts in "Life After People"
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:12:49 -0800

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/educational_and_howto/watch/v18703893xBs5Ms7h

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

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Message #32223
From: David Stodolsky <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Grim story on cryonics
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:50:31 +0100
References: <[email protected]>

On 13 Dec 2009, at 11:00 AM, Luke Parrish wrote:
>
>>>> Furthermore, irrational violence is neurological in nature,
>>
>>
>> No. TMT shows this is false. See:
>>
>> http://www.ernestbecker.org/
>>
>
> TMT is fascinating, but I do not see how it negates the point that all
> human behavior, irrational violence included, is neurological in  
> nature.
> Understanding how neurons fire is going to give future society a heck
> of a lot more understanding about why people are violent and how to
> prevent it.
>
> I don't see how a literate person could reach any contrary conclusion.
> TMT is completely irrelevant to my point.

http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP07398441_c.pdf

The Chronic Dependence of Popular Religiosity upon Dysfunctional  
Psychosociological Conditions


The nonuniversality of strong religious devotion, and the ease with  
which large populations abandon serious theism when conditions are  
sufficiently benign, refute hypotheses that religious belief and  
practice are the normal, deeply set human mental state, whether they  
are superficial or natural in nature. Instead popular religion is  
usually a superficial and flexible psychological mechanism for coping  
with the high levels of stress and anxiety produced by sufficiently  
dysfunctional social and especially economic environments. Popular  
nontheism is a similarly casual response to superior conditions.


dss


David Stodolsky
[email protected]  Skype: davidstodolsky

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