CryoNet #32414 - #32417
CryoNet <[email protected]> 24 Feb 2010 10:00:03 -0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.culture.science.cryogenics |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
CryoNet - Wed 24 Feb 2010
#32414: How to protect yourself [david pizer]
#32415: Re: Removing incentive [RAMole]
#32416: Like the Air Force, organ printing "is not science fiction." [MARK PLUS]
#32417: Apology to Alcor Board [Rudi Hoffman]
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Message #32414
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:46:39 -0800 (PST)
From: david pizer <[email protected]>
Subject: How to protect yourself
There has been some discussion about relatives causing suspensions to not take place as the cryonics member gets older and how we cryonicists can protect ourselves from this happening.
Suspension interference happens more then most cryonicists realize. As a retired member of of Alcor management I have seen a lot of it. Sometimes relatives cause the suspension to not take place by interfering at, afterwords or just before legal death. When this happens, the cryonics community knows that a relative interference has taken place.
But much more often, the interference takes place long before legal death as the suspension member grows old and mentally fragile. Little by little over time, the relatives encourage the member to cancel his/her membership. One day the dues quit coming into Alcor or CI and neither Alcor nor CI really know why the person is no longer paying dues. They try to contact the member but often the relatives can block that from happening. If they do make contact with the member, the member gives them an excuse that they think will cause Alcor or CI to drop the matter, at the relatives' urging or suggestion. They rarely tell Alcor or CI the real reason, specifically that their relatives have talked them out of it.
Then after suspension arrangements have been canceled, the relatives talk the ex-member into changing the beneficiary on the insurance policy and that is the end of their chances for a successful suspension.
All one has to do is look at how many people have dropped their membership after all the work and expense of signing up for cryonics to see that this is happening every month of every year.
You say it won't happen to you!
Maybe so but maybe it will. Because when you grow old you lose some of your ability to think clearly. Little by little your relatives gain control of your thinking process. They are their in your home or community working on you day and night to cancel your cryonics - or if you lose enough mental ability they simply take over your affairs.
You think your relatives will continue to honor your wishes as you grow old?
A lot of them will tall you to your face that they will, but in reality they believe that cryonics is a waste of your time and your money. So they have no moral reservations about causing you to cancel your membership and have the money go to them if and when they get a chance to take over.
How can you protect yourself?
Make sure that your life insurance policy says that if you don't get suspended for any reason that the proceeds still go to your cryonics organization and not your relatives. So there is no financial incentive for the relatives to cause you to cancel your arrangements.
Put a clause in your will that says that if you don't get suspended that all your estate goes to your cryonics company and not your relatives so that there is a financial incentive for your relatives to see that you do get suspended.
Maybe have two beneficiaries on your life insurance policy. One is your suspension company and the other is your relatives. If you get suspended Alcor or CI gets their money and your relatives get some too. If you don't get suspended then Alcor or CI get all the money and your relatives get nothing.
Make a video of your wishes and send it to your cryonics organization to keep in case there is trouble when you get old and infirm.
Help create a cryonics community where older cryonicists can live until their suspension time.
David
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Message #32415
From: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:12:02 EST
Subject: Re: Removing incentive
In addition to clauses in your will preventing others from benefiting from
opposing your suspension, you should also let everyone know about these
clauses, and that they are ironclad and have passed muster with a lawyer (most
conveniently, the one who writes the will.)
I expect another 30 years of life, but I plan, now sooner than later, to
make a video explaining forcefully that I *do* want cryo, that I have studied
the field for years and understand the issues and objections, and that I
am NOT going to have a deathbed change of mind. Also that I have seen old
people get weak, and then they will agree to anything anyone says, just so
they will go away and let them sleep. While I would resist, I too could get
weak and say Yes, but rejecting cryo is not something I would do when of
sound mind. Etc., repeated in every way I can think of, so that even the most
prejudiced or ignorant court must understand what my wish is.
I think such a video would be very persuasive and help quash any court
action against cryo. I urge others to do this too.
Alan Mole
In a message dated 2/23/2010 3:00:30 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
CryoNet - Tue 23 Feb 2010
#32409: Message #32403 [doctor Robert]
#32410: Removing incentive [Keith Henson]
#32411: Re: CryoNet #32404 - #32408 [RAMole]
#32412: Talking point suggestion re: the Robbins case [MARK PLUS]
#32413: Re: PR debacles and how to avoid future ones [David Stodolsky]
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Message #32409
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:24:35 -0800
Subject: Message #32403
From: doctor Robert <[email protected]>
--0016e6d644f52c978c04803562e7
Hi All: Thanks Mark for this VERY important and timely question. I have
suggested that we all talk to our relatives about our plans and wishes. If
any of them indicate the slightest reserve, hesitancy or withholds, then
endeavor to get them to sign an agreement TO NOT INTERFERE. Get this
signed, witnessed by a family member who is completely supportive, and
dated. Send it to Alcor and keep a copy. You may have to negotiate with the
relative, like leaving something in the will to that person, with
provisions
to subtract Alcor's legal costs if they try to interfere. It is the
communication that is the absolutely most important part of this. Each one
of us is individually responsible for doing this, as you can see, Alcor is
not your fail safe here because legal issues take time and that is the one
thing that cannot be compromised in your suspension. Dr. Robert Newport,
Medial Advisory Board. Alcor Life Extension Foundation
--
--0016e6d644f52c978c04803562e7
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Message #32410
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:52:42 -0700
Subject: Removing incentive
From: Keith Henson <[email protected]>
Some of the recent problem with suspensions may be coming from
relatives having a financial incentive to block suspensions.
If we think about it, most of us have a relative hostile to cryonics
who could be in a place to block a suspension depending on who died
first.
I think the section of the contract that specifies where the
suspension funding goes needs to be modified. In fact I am going to
do this myself soon as I can get it worded correctly
Delete the section about who gets the funding if an Alcor member is
not suspended with this.
***********
In the event a suspension cannot be performed, (lost at sea, WTC
collapse, etc.) Alcor is still the beneficiary of the suspension
funding. In such cases, Alcor may at its sole discretion pay part or
all of the suspension funding to a person or persons named here or to
the estate of the member.
(name of person, persons)
Alcor is forbidden to pay any part of the suspension funding to a
person or persons who have interfered with the member's prompt
suspension.
**********
Please comment. I want to get this right the first time.
Keith Henson
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Message #32411
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:19:13 EST
Subject: Re: CryoNet #32404 - #32408
There must be many ways to prevent greedy relatives from trying to get
suspension money by canceling suspensions. One's will might specify the
exact
amounts (not percentages) to each relative and suspension, with the rest
going to reanimation trusts or charities. Preferably, "the rest" would be
a
lot, so there is a comfortable safety factor. Thus the relatives would
not
benefit form canceling a suspension. Better yet is a clause deleting the
inheritance of anyone interfering.Or, as Rudy says, the insurance
beneficiary
may be Alcor/SA/CI directly.
What I think is needed here is just some legal advice showing how to
structure a will with standard clauses to remove the possibility of
relatives
profiting if a suspension is prevented.
Alan Mole
In a message dated 2/22/2010 3:00:33 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Mary Robbins's relatives might have decided to interfere with her
suspension
because they had heard the previous episodes of bad publicity regarding
Alcor, including rumors of the abuse of a frozen head. If they succeed in
preventing Robbins's suspension, while also intercepting the money she had
set aside for it, that will give other members' relatives the precedent
and
incentive to try to stop their suspensions. And even if Alcor wins custody
of Robbins's body, the media might frame the story in a way sympathetic to
the relatives and derogatory to Alcor, contributing to problems down the
line with other suspensions opposed by the suspendees' family members.
What should we do to keep this from happening to potentially all of us
with
living relatives?
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Message #32412
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:24:12 -0700
Subject: Talking point suggestion re: the Robbins case
From: MARK PLUS <[email protected]>
--00504502e36acffe5904803b3e95
If you get into any online discussions about the Robbins case, and people
ask about the source of new bodies for neuropatients, you might refer them
to the emerging, non-science fictional technology of organ printing:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22organ+printing%22&aq=f&aqi=
g3g-m2&oq=
One of the scientists in this field, Dr. Vladimir Mironov, extended the
concept to printing a whole human body a few years ago in an article in
"The
Futurist" magazine:
Beyond cloning: toward human printing
http://www.box.net/shared/static/p3idvxvlcb.html
If printing a whole human body becomes practical, that obviously suggests
itself as a solution to the needs of revived neuropatients for new bodies.
--
Mark Plus
Life is short: Freeze hard!
--00504502e36acffe5904803b3e95
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Message #32416
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:36:35 -0700
Subject: Like the Air Force, organ printing "is not science fiction."
From: MARK PLUS <[email protected]>
I realize that we need to debate the wisdom of continuing to perform
neurosuspensions in light of the public relations problems that
procedure causes. But in the meantime, progress in organ printing has
occurred rapidly enough that we might score points in the public
understanding of cryonics to incorporate the prospect of whole body
printing as a way to answer the "Where will the new bodies come from?"
objections to the practice of keeping neuropatients.
For example, the Economist magazine the other day published an article
about the release of the Organovo company's new 3-D bioprinter onto
the market.
--
Mark Plus
Life is short: Freeze hard!
http://www.economist.com/science-technology/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15543683
Science & Technology
Printing body parts
Making a bit of me
A machine that prints organs is coming to market
Feb 18th 2010 | From The Economist print edition
Illustration by David Simonds
THE great hope of transplant surgeons is that they will, one day, be
able to order replacement body parts on demand. At the moment, a
patient may wait months, sometimes years, for an organ from a suitable
donor. During that time his condition may worsen. He may even die. The
ability to make organs as they are needed would not only relieve
suffering but also save lives. And that possibility may be closer with
the arrival of the first commercial 3D bio-printer for manufacturing
human tissue and organs.
The new machine, which costs around $200,000, has been developed by
Organovo, a company in San Diego that specialises in regenerative
medicine, and Invetech, an engineering and automation firm in
Melbourne, Australia. One of Organovo's founders, Gabor Forgacs of the
University of Missouri, developed the prototype on which the new 3D
bio-printer is based. The first production models will soon be
delivered to research groups which, like Dr Forgacs's, are studying
ways to produce tissue and organs for repair and replacement. At
present much of this work is done by hand or by adapting existing
instruments and devices.
To start with, only simple tissues, such as skin, muscle and short
stretches of blood vessels, will be made, says Keith Murphy,
Organovo's chief executive, and these will be for research purposes.
Mr Murphy says, however, that the company expects that within five
years, once clinical trials are complete, the printers will produce
blood vessels for use as grafts in bypass surgery. With more research
it should be possible to produce bigger, more complex body parts.
Because the machines have the ability to make branched tubes, the
technology could, for example, be used to create the networks of blood
vessels needed to sustain larger printed organs, like kidneys, livers
and hearts.
Printing history
Organovo's 3D bio-printer works in a similar way to some
rapid-prototyping machines used in industry to make parts and
mechanically functioning models. These work like inkjet printers, but
with a third dimension. Such printers deposit droplets of polymer
which fuse together to form a structure. With each pass of the
printing heads, the base on which the object is being made moves down
a notch. In this way, little by little, the object takes shape. Voids
in the structure and complex shapes are supported by printing a
"scaffold” of water-soluble material. Once the object is complete, the
scaffold is washed away.
Researchers have found that something similar can be done with
biological materials. When small clusters of cells are placed next to
each other they flow together, fuse and organise themselves. Various
techniques are being explored to condition the cells to mature into
functioning body parts-for example, "exercising” incipient muscles
using small machines.
Though printing organs is new, growing them from scratch on scaffolds
has already been done successfully. In 2006 Anthony Atala and his
colleagues at the Wake Forest Institute for Regenerative Medicine in
North Carolina made new bladders for seven patients. These are still
working.
Dr Atala's process starts by taking a tiny sample of tissue from the
patient's own bladder (so that the organ that is grown from it will
not be rejected by his immune system). From this he extracts precursor
cells that can go on to form the muscle on the outside of the bladder
and the specialised cells within it. When more of these cells have
been cultured in the laboratory, they are painted onto a biodegradable
bladder-shaped scaffold which is warmed to body temperature. The cells
then mature and multiply. Six to eight weeks later, the bladder is
ready to be put into the patient.
The advantage of using a bioprinter is that it eliminates the need for
a scaffold, so Dr Atala, too, is experimenting with inkjet technology.
The Organovo machine uses stem cells extracted from adult bone marrow
and fat as the precursors. These cells can be coaxed into
differentiating into many other types of cells by the application of
appropriate growth factors. The cells are formed into droplets 100-500
microns in diameter and containing 10,000-30,000 cells each. The
droplets retain their shape well and pass easily through the inkjet
printing process.
A second printing head is used to deposit scaffolding-a sugar-based
hydrogel. This does not interfere with the cells or stick to them.
Once the printing is complete, the structure is left for a day or two,
to allow the droplets to fuse together. For tubular structures, such
as blood vessels, the hydrogel is printed in the centre and around the
outside of the ring of each cross-section before the cells are added.
When the part has matured, the hydrogel is peeled away from the
outside and pulled from the centre like a piece of string.
The bio-printers are also capable of using other types of cells and
support materials. They could be employed, Mr Murphy suggests, to
place liver cells on a pre-built, liver-shaped scaffold or to form
layers of lining and connective tissue that would grow into a tooth.
The printer fits inside a standard laboratory biosafety cabinet, for
sterile operation. Invetech has developed a laser-based calibration
system to ensure that both print heads deposit their materials
accurately, and a computer-graphics system allows cross-sections of
body parts to be designed.
Some researchers think machines like this may one day be capable of
printing tissues and organs directly into the body. Indeed, Dr Atala
is working on one that would scan the contours of the part of a body
where a skin graft was needed and then print skin onto it. As for
bigger body parts, Dr Forgacs thinks they may take many different
forms, at least initially. A man-made biological substitute for a
kidney, for instance, need not look like a real one or contain all its
features in order to clean waste products from the bloodstream. Those
waiting for transplants are unlikely to worry too much about what
replacement body parts look like, so long as they work and make them
better.
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Message #32417
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:33:09 -0500
Subject: Apology to Alcor Board
From: Rudi Hoffman <[email protected]>
--0016363b8d0c8e35aa04804dcf6f
Hello, Alcor Board and Whom it May Concern:
This note is to apologize for my previous email, labeled "PR Debacles and
how to avoid them."
While I think some of the observations I made were valid, what was
suboptimal was the tone of the email, which, upon re-reading, I decided came
across as unduly harsh or critical of the board and management. This was
truly not my intention. Nor did I, upon reflection, mean to adopt a
simplistic or overly arrogant or didactic tone in my email.
While bicycling today, I came upon a church sign on my bike route. This
marquee usually has nonsense about trusting god instead of human
understanding, praising the virtue of believing without evidence, and the
usual annoying drivel promulgated by the over-religious. However, today it
had a sign that really spoke to me. Here is what it said:
"Why not try giving others a piece of your heart, rather than a piece of
your mind?"
Upon reflection, it occurred to me that at least part of my earlier email
may have been "giving a piece of my mind" to the board upon hearing of yet
another lawsuit. This email is to provide, instead, a piece of my heart.
Additionally, an Alcor board member was good enough to share some of the
details of why Alcor is in a legal fuss over the Mary Robbins case. And, as
is often the case, understanding breeds compassion.
Anyway, I won't belabor this further. Other than to once again assert how
easy it is to second guess the people in the trenches struggling to make the
best decisions possible. And to re-affirm my personal commitment to find a
way to help without being a dilettante operating on limited information.
Also, I thought the postings on cryonet today were most thought provoking.
I like Keith Henson's verbiage to the effect that "Anyone contesting the
cryonic suspension of the member is hereby directed to receive absolutely
nothing from my estate."
IN CLOSING
The enterprise we are engaged in is SUPPOSED to be hard. No one ever said
that developing the legal and technological infrastructure for indefinite
lifespans would be easy. But we will persist, and we will struggle, and we
will succeed.
The march of science and progress and time is on our side. I am proud to be
a part of this endeavor known as cryonics. We place a premium on individual
lives. We are engaged in what may be the most epic and historic struggle of
all time against the tyranny of aging and death.
I am grateful for the best efforts and wisdom of all who read this.
Rudi
--
Rudi Richard Hoffman CFP CLU ChFC
World's Leading Cryonics Insuror rudihoffman.com
Former Board Member Financial Planning Association fpafla.com
Board Member Salvation Army salvationarmy.org
Member Alcor Life Extension Foundation alcor.org,
Member Cryonics Institute cryonics.org
Certified Financial Planner(TM) CFP Board of Standards
Member World Transhumanist Association http://transhumanism.org/
--0016363b8d0c8e35aa04804dcf6f
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